Sharing info on kidneys, uric acid, oxalates

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Posted by Iguanamomma on August 16, 1999 at 21:42:13:

As promised here's the rest of the information on oxalates. I found what Anne had to say very interesting :o) Did the same snipping and xxx-ing with this as I did the other. But this isn't as long....aren't you glad?? *smile*
*******
From original Poster:

I think I may have given you the wrong impression. When I said that along with the urates were small pebble sized balls, I didn't mean that my vet had told me they were kidney stones. He never told me what they were and I just assumed they were part of the urates that had solidified. This happened about 6-7 months ago and she hasn't had any problems since so I haven't spoken to him about it since then. Also, I did understand the reason for him telling me to give her iceberg, I just meant that it seemed so odd feeding her iceberg since I have it stuck in my head about feeding nutritious greens and avoiding iceberg. *snipped*
*********
Anne's reply to the above:

"I just assumed they were part of the urates that had solidified." That certainly could be the case. All my igs produce occasional uricacid lumps - the one thing about uric acid (the reason why reptiles and some other animals produce it instead of urea as humans do) is that it isn't very soluble and requires very little water for excretion. To some extent, the igs are 'happy' that it turns into lumps as soon as it leaves the kidneys. (The watery part of the excretion is composed of alkali salts of uric acid and is more properly called 'urates'.) These lumps of uric acid are normal, and 'squish' if you squeeze them. They smear like powder suspended in water. (For instance, if you have a bottle of foundation that you haven't used in five years - the solid part of that.* ) To avoid these lumps, you feed either less protein or more water. (Uric acid is the breakdown product of unused or worn-out protein.) Occasional ones are not harmful. Oxalic acid can sometimes be seen leaving the gut in the form of calciumoxalate crystals, which are square with a cross in the diagonals (they look like grains of sand to the naked eye but are very characteristic under the mic). I don't actually know what they look like leaving the kidney - but I can find out. If a diet is high in oxalic acid (e.g. collards), a little extra calcium carbonate will help. This combines with the oxalic acid in the gut and produces crystals. These crystals are not absorbed, and are excreted relatively safely. If the diet is low in calcium, some oxalic acid is absorbed, and then it meets calcium ions in the bloodstream. This could conceivably form calcium oxalate crystals in the kidney or in the ureter, where they do damage both by blocking the free flow and also by being very sharp edged. (It also removes the calcium ions from the usable pool, producing a sudden and possibly harmful drop in blood calcium level.)(When I write this stuff, I'm not just thinking of the person who wrotethe original post, so *snip*, if you know all this, I'm not trying to insult your intelligence - I'm just recapping for any of the others on the list who might not know. :-))As I've been writing recently, mustard greens are not very high in oxalates. It seems unlikely they could cause this problem. *snip*.Anne M
* I've always been told to write from my own experience. If no-one else has any five year old foundation, I'll be happy to demonstrate a couple of bottles of mine.
******

The End

Now let's all go get some chocolate...for ourselves! No sharing with your ig!!

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: As promised here's the rest of the information on oxalates. I found what Anne had to say very interesting :o) Did the same snipping and xxx-ing with this as I did the other. But this isn't as long....aren't you glad?? *smile* : ******* : From original Poster: : I think I may have given you the wrong impression. When I said that along with the urates were small pebble sized balls, I didn't mean that my vet had told me they were kidney stones. He never told me what they were and I just assumed they were part of the urates that had solidified. This happened about 6-7 months ago and she hasn't had any problems since so I haven't spoken to him about it since then. Also, I did understand the reason for him telling me to give her iceberg, I just meant that it seemed so odd feeding her iceberg since I have it stuck in my head about feeding nutritious greens and avoiding iceberg. *snipped* : ********* : Anne's reply to the above: : "I just assumed they were part of the urates that had solidified." That certainly could be the case. All my igs produce occasional uricacid lumps - the one thing about uric acid (the reason why reptiles and some other animals produce it instead of urea as humans do) is that it isn't very soluble and requires very little water for excretion. To some extent, the igs are 'happy' that it turns into lumps as soon as it leaves the kidneys. (The watery part of the excretion is composed of alkali salts of uric acid and is more properly called 'urates'.) These lumps of uric acid are normal, and 'squish' if you squeeze them. They smear like powder suspended in water. (For instance, if you have a bottle of foundation that you haven't used in five years - the solid part of that.* ) To avoid these lumps, you feed either less protein or more water. (Uric acid is the breakdown product of unused or worn-out protein.) Occasional ones are not harmful. Oxalic acid can sometimes be seen leaving the gut in the form of calciumoxalate crystals, which are square with a cross in the diagonals (they look like grains of sand to the naked eye but are very characteristic under the mic). I don't actually know what they look like leaving the kidney - but I can find out. If a diet is high in oxalic acid (e.g. collards), a little extra calcium carbonate will help. This combines with the oxalic acid in the gut and produces crystals. These crystals are not absorbed, and are excreted relatively safely. If the diet is low in calcium, some oxalic acid is absorbed, and then it meets calcium ions in the bloodstream. This could conceivably form calcium oxalate crystals in the kidney or in the ureter, where they do damage both by blocking the free flow and also by being very sharp edged. (It also removes the calcium ions from the usable pool, producing a sudden and possibly harmful drop in blood calcium level.)(When I write this stuff, I'm not just thinking of the person who wrotethe original post, so *snip*, if you know all this, I'm not trying to insult your intelligence - I'm just recapping for any of the others on the list who might not know. :-))As I've been writing recently, mustard greens are not very high in oxalates. It seems unlikely they could cause this problem. *snip*.Anne M : * I've always been told to write from my own experience. If no-one else has any five year old foundation, I'll be happy to demonstrate a couple of bottles of mine. : ****** : The End : Now let's all go get some chocolate...for ourselves! No sharing with your ig!!

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