Re: NYC animals (long)

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Posted by Ziggy's Mom on August 15, 1999 at 09:35:35:

In Reply to: NYC animals (long) posted by NYanimals on August 15, 1999 at 07:55:56:

According to what I understand, pet stores under this new law can still sell iguanas because there is a large loop hole that allows them to, along with people who want them for education purposes, and institutes of learning. So it is only illegal to OWN them, not sell them.

The other problem in NYC is that there is no good enforcement. Nobody will be knocking on your door unless, as stated in earlier posts, neighbors want to get back at you or people who know you have the iguana and are afraid of it. Otherwise, there is no way for the city to enforce this law. They do not have enough inspectors to inspect the pet stores, let alone private residences. From what I heard, you can still buy exotic illegal pets from some pet stores because the stores know that the likelihood of an inspector coming to them is very nil.

Not that this makes iguana owners feel comfortable. Now you cannot take your pet for a walk in the park or just outside. And a trip to the vet would be quite the adventure, wondering if someone was going to call the cops on you.

And to respond to the two types of people; animal loves and not. That is an oversimplification. I have a friend who is a dog rescuer. She rescues 100s of dogs from the CACC and she thinks that iguanas are wild exotic animals that do not belong in cages in peoples homes. She does not see what I see in them. But she LOVES animals. Reptiles come off as being "cold" animals and therefore are not going to receive the same protection and warm fuzzy feelings that even a cute puppy or kitten can evoke. But then again, these people have never met my Cuddles.

: Hello all. I see you've been discussing the issue about the banned animals in NYC! Great!! :O)

: This is long, but I ask you to please read everything and if you have any questions, feel free to email me. (You could post here but I may not get back for a day or two!)

: I want to reply to a couple of things and let people understand where I'm coming from. Obviously, everyone thinks this is wrong for some reason. To me, it's more than just an issue of my beloved iggys being taken. I would do anything just short of killing (well...hehe) to keep them. They have become too big a part of my life to release them into some unknown void when I know they are getting the best care they can. (Not to mention they are spoiled rotten!) So this, of course is the first and foremost issue.

: However, the problem is that most people who are not like us and do not have a love and respect for the beauty of animals other than humans, cannot understand what we are saying. IMHO, there are two types of people in the world: animal lovers and those who are not. The people who made this law, seem (and I emphasize SEEM) to think of animals as disposable property. They do not seem to understand that just telling a person who loves their little green baby (or whatever color) to get rid of that pet is not an option.

: So that brings up the second issue which is constitutional rights. Since the lawmakers don't go on *feelings* and instead, see things as a matter of law, it's boiling down to a property issue. And since the constitution protects a person's right to own property, it may come to us having to fight on that rather than trying to force people who are not animal lovers into seeing why we love our animals and why it is so wrong to get rid of them.

: On the issue of the grandfather clause, it is IMO that is it much easier to get the politicians to add something in rather than doing away with a whole ordinance. Also, the grandfather clause will make it so that these animals can no longer be sold to the people that do not know how to take care of them. I know it's not a perfect solution, but it's better than nothing.

: But, if we're talking idealistically, in the long run what I would love to see is what Des and others have said about getting permits. If a new pet owner was required under law to have to pay $$$ for their new animal, it would make the animal a little less disposable. And it may also ward off a lot of the people who would potentially harm the pet as we have all seen done. Personally, I would pay any amount of money (within my means) to keep my green kiddys. And even though it is wrong for the city to just step in and do this, again, it's hard to fight them on beliefs, ethics and morals. We have to find the reason why this is legally wrong and work from that viewpoint.

: So in essence, if you know any good lawyers, let us know please. And if you have any ideas, please join our mailing list and let us know.

: We do need help. All the information I have found out regarding legal matters is from a family member who practices law in a different area. If he was involved in this sort of law, he would help but he feels we need someone who is current on these types of issues for us to be fully protected.

: THe only problem is, no one seems to want to help. I've contacted lawyers and they either give me quotes for phenomenal consultation fees or they just say good luck.... I am waiting on responses from some of the area's legal clinics. So if you know anyone who would jump, please let us know!!!!

: Again, feel free to email me. Thanks for the soap box, I now step down. :o)

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: : According to what I understand, pet stores under this new law can still sell iguanas because there is a large loop hole that allows them to, along with people who want them for education purposes, and institutes of learning. So it is only illegal to OWN them, not sell them. : The other problem in NYC is that there is no good enforcement. Nobody will be knocking on your door unless, as stated in earlier posts, neighbors want to get back at you or people who know you have the iguana and are afraid of it. Otherwise, there is no way for the city to enforce this law. They do not have enough inspectors to inspect the pet stores, let alone private residences. From what I heard, you can still buy exotic illegal pets from some pet stores because the stores know that the likelihood of an inspector coming to them is very nil. : Not that this makes iguana owners feel comfortable. Now you cannot take your pet for a walk in the park or just outside. And a trip to the vet would be quite the adventure, wondering if someone was going to call the cops on you. : And to respond to the two types of people; animal loves and not. That is an oversimplification. I have a friend who is a dog rescuer. She rescues 100s of dogs from the CACC and she thinks that iguanas are wild exotic animals that do not belong in cages in peoples homes. She does not see what I see in them. But she LOVES animals. Reptiles come off as being "cold" animals and therefore are not going to receive the same protection and warm fuzzy feelings that even a cute puppy or kitten can evoke. But then again, these people have never met my Cuddles. : : Hello all. I see you've been discussing the issue about the banned animals in NYC! Great!! :O) : : This is long, but I ask you to please read everything and if you have any questions, feel free to email me. (You could post here but I may not get back for a day or two!) : : I want to reply to a couple of things and let people understand where I'm coming from. Obviously, everyone thinks this is wrong for some reason. To me, it's more than just an issue of my beloved iggys being taken. I would do anything just short of killing (well...hehe) to keep them. They have become too big a part of my life to release them into some unknown void when I know they are getting the best care they can. (Not to mention they are spoiled rotten!) So this, of course is the first and foremost issue. : : However, the problem is that most people who are not like us and do not have a love and respect for the beauty of animals other than humans, cannot understand what we are saying. IMHO, there are two types of people in the world: animal lovers and those who are not. The people who made this law, seem (and I emphasize SEEM) to think of animals as disposable property. They do not seem to understand that just telling a person who loves their little green baby (or whatever color) to get rid of that pet is not an option. : : So that brings up the second issue which is constitutional rights. Since the lawmakers don't go on *feelings* and instead, see things as a matter of law, it's boiling down to a property issue. And since the constitution protects a person's right to own property, it may come to us having to fight on that rather than trying to force people who are not animal lovers into seeing why we love our animals and why it is so wrong to get rid of them. : : On the issue of the grandfather clause, it is IMO that is it much easier to get the politicians to add something in rather than doing away with a whole ordinance. Also, the grandfather clause will make it so that these animals can no longer be sold to the people that do not know how to take care of them. I know it's not a perfect solution, but it's better than nothing. : : But, if we're talking idealistically, in the long run what I would love to see is what Des and others have said about getting permits. If a new pet owner was required under law to have to pay $$$ for their new animal, it would make the animal a little less disposable. And it may also ward off a lot of the people who would potentially harm the pet as we have all seen done. Personally, I would pay any amount of money (within my means) to keep my green kiddys. And even though it is wrong for the city to just step in and do this, again, it's hard to fight them on beliefs, ethics and morals. We have to find the reason why this is legally wrong and work from that viewpoint. : : So in essence, if you know any good lawyers, let us know please. And if you have any ideas, please join our mailing list and let us know. : : We do need help. All the information I have found out regarding legal matters is from a family member who practices law in a different area. If he was involved in this sort of law, he would help but he feels we need someone who is current on these types of issues for us to be fully protected. : : THe only problem is, no one seems to want to help. I've contacted lawyers and they either give me quotes for phenomenal consultation fees or they just say good luck.... I am waiting on responses from some of the area's legal clinics. So if you know anyone who would jump, please let us know!!!! : : Again, feel free to email me. Thanks for the soap box, I now step down. :o)

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