Re: actually ag, the line between exasperatum and horridum.....

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Posted by ag on January 16, 2002 at 21:55:34:

In Reply to: actually ag, the line between exasperatum and horridum..... posted by steve on January 16, 2002 at 20:51:02:

: : : Boy I thought we were "of different opinions" when it came to gila monster subspecies, you beaded keepers are just as "opinionated"(LOL) :)

: : You're telling me! I thought it was pretty cut and dry, but there is just as much controversy over horridum subspecies! I've seen Herp Nut's three charlesbogerti behind the scenes at Gladys Porter Zoo. I visited San Antonio Zoo (for the first time in YEARS) last month and they had a very similar looking animal on exhibit. I asked Alan Kardon there about beaded subspecies, and he believes only alvarezi can be accuratly "keyed out" by pattern/coloration. Or lack of I should say.

: : I've looked at a bunch of photographs and seen a few dozen live animals over the last few years (San Antonio has 3 displays and even more offspring in the back!)and the line between exasperatum and horridum can really be blurred! Obviously the pros have their work cut out for them LOL!

: : Andrew

: horridum in my opinion isn't as blurred as you described. the rio fuerte beaded or exasperatum sub-species is very easily distinguished between the more common h.horridums. rio fuerte's are extremely high yellow. usually 4 to 5 yellow blotches occur down the dorsal region surrounded by a peppering or blotched combination of irregular yellow markings. also the presence of 5 including tail tip, double tail bands. horridums sometimes have the double tail bands but they're no where near as striking as the rio fuerte's markings. horridum horridum's are generally darker with light to heavy yellow or off white body markings. some horridums look like the rio's, i guess it just boils down to the trained eye......lol right herp nut!!!

Usually, Generally, and Often = unsure in my book. Geographical variation is bound to occur within each population. We may look for certain pattern characteristics and draw up blueprints for each "subspecies", but unless a large number of specimens are reviewed from a chosen population - how do we really know for sure?

Just my thoughts-

Andrew

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ag if you saw enough of them overtime, you could tell the difference steve 01/17/02 (1)
- Re: ag if you saw enough of them overtime, you could tell the difference John 01/17/02 (0)

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: : : : Boy I thought we were "of different opinions" when it came to gila monster subspecies, you beaded keepers are just as "opinionated"(LOL) :) : : : You're telling me! I thought it was pretty cut and dry, but there is just as much controversy over horridum subspecies! I've seen Herp Nut's three charlesbogerti behind the scenes at Gladys Porter Zoo. I visited San Antonio Zoo (for the first time in YEARS) last month and they had a very similar looking animal on exhibit. I asked Alan Kardon there about beaded subspecies, and he believes only alvarezi can be accuratly "keyed out" by pattern/coloration. Or lack of I should say. : : : I've looked at a bunch of photographs and seen a few dozen live animals over the last few years (San Antonio has 3 displays and even more offspring in the back!)and the line between exasperatum and horridum can really be blurred! Obviously the pros have their work cut out for them LOL! : : : Andrew : : horridum in my opinion isn't as blurred as you described. the rio fuerte beaded or exasperatum sub-species is very easily distinguished between the more common h.horridums. rio fuerte's are extremely high yellow. usually 4 to 5 yellow blotches occur down the dorsal region surrounded by a peppering or blotched combination of irregular yellow markings. also the presence of 5 including tail tip, double tail bands. horridums sometimes have the double tail bands but they're no where near as striking as the rio fuerte's markings. horridum horridum's are generally darker with light to heavy yellow or off white body markings. some horridums look like the rio's, i guess it just boils down to the trained eye......lol right herp nut!!! : : Usually, Generally, and Often = unsure in my book. Geographical variation is bound to occur within each population. We may look for certain pattern characteristics and draw up blueprints for each "subspecies", but unless a large number of specimens are reviewed from a chosen population - how do we really know for sure? : Just my thoughts- : Andrew

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