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Posted by Thamnophile on March 20, 2003 at 02:51:59:
In Reply to: Here's what I meant posted by animalmaniac on March 18, 2003 at 11:29:23:
I can't give you the logic arguement you are looking for - but you are right - the reference is actually to him "driving" Druidry out of Ireland. Druids were not only the historians, lawyers, politicians, and educators, but were also the"officiators" of Celtic religion in Ireland. For this reason they were seen as the extreme threat to establishing Christianity, and Christianity's hold on politics.
Ironically, Druids were tolerant of other's religions, and had no problem with Christian conversions, until the Christian clergy showed it's intolerance for the "pagan" Druids. BTW, for some background, the word pagan comes from the Latin word "paganus" and means simply "country dweller".
Anyways, back to the snakes.... the Irish Druids did travel abroad, both to Britain, and the European mainland - where snakes, like adders, do occur.
In fact, Patrick himself was British - not Irish, and in Wales, Druids were often called naddred, which is Welsh for adder, because it was believed adders and Druids possessed hidden knowledge. This is most likely where the association between the two came from.
The truth is that either snakes were exterminated when Ireland was covered in glaciers, or they never existed there at all.
I'm Irish, Pagan, follow a druidic path, and keep many snakes - so this legend is one I actually researched, LOL.
I hope this helped "flesh out" the discussion.
Lisa
: He just brought it up as a subject of discussion and speculation. I am sure he doesn't believe it. I can't take in your "logical reasoning" because it doesn't have a major premise, a minor premise, and a rational conclusion, in that order. Figuratively St. Patrick might have, if you make the analogy of snakes representing paganism. He did basically convert everyone in Ireland to Christianity.
: animalmaniac
::hi, i don't believe a LOGIC teacher would in all seriousness pass this off as true. let's look at this logically. first of all, one person could not possibly "chase" members of only one family of animals and not others out of anywhere. second of all, even if he could, for the purposes of ensuring "peace from the critters", why not just kill them all. third of all, snakes, eventhough have hearing, are not particularly attentive listeners, so complicated instructions probably would be lost on them. and bisedes, if the purpose of ridding the isdand of these "eveil" creatures would be to stop witches from performing their "evil" rituals, it does not make sense, since everybody knows that newts' and slamanders' eyes and private parts are far more valuable than any snake stuff.
::take that to your teacher!
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