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Posted by Kathy on February 19, 2002 at 22:53:42:
In Reply to: Re: NO!!!!!! WHO VERBALLY ATTACKED WHO HERE?!?!?! posted by Lisa on February 19, 2002 at 14:05:59:
TSHS and Zac,
Hello. Let me introduce myself. My name is Kathy and I am relatively new to the forum. I have been reading the various arguments made by both Zac and the TSHS over the past few days. I usually remain neutral in matters such as been presented by both sides; however, I feel that it has gotten out-of-hand. I do not like what I have been reading on this forum and feel the need to put in some input from what an outsider perceives when listening to both sides rant on-and-on.
I would like to note that I am from the Pittsburgh area and have attended one TSHS herp. show with my fiancé(who is an avid herp. enthusiast). I hold an appreciation and understanding for the dedicated herp community both those in the respectable trade(TSHS) and those who educate(Zac) people like me---the general public. I am writing this to hopefully put an end to this childish squabble. I do apologize now for calling it such because I realize both sides hold true to their passions and will not back down.
Now then, I will begin with Zac who started this. As far as the $5 fee at the door to get in, I understand and agree with the TSHS when they responded how they need to set the fee at that price because their show is in its infant stages of being formed. It can not possibly compete at the level of the Columbus and Monroeville shows at this point and therefore can not charge their prices (which I believe is $3). As far as the number of vendors, I do agree with you that there were not that many(at least there weren’t that many at the show I previously attended) especially when you are used to the much larger shows. This was a bit disappointing for me as well; however, once again their argument that they are a new show and can not control if vendors will actually show or not is a valid point. Nonetheless, it was disappointing for me as well(and I am sure that the TSHS was disappointed as well). As far as prices of the herps.—I can not comment…I do not have enough knowledge about that subject(keep in mind that I am an outsider peering in from the curious public!). Last point I want to address with regards to Zac: I too witnessed when I attended the one show with my fiancé that vendors tables were left unattended often. This did disturb me greatly. In fact, an incident at one table shook my nerves so much that I told my fiancé that I would not go back to this show again(although, TSHS, I do respect your endeavors and know that you can not oversee every table with a small crew). I witnessed a teenage boy shake a tupperware container that had air holes in it in order to get a SPITTING cobra to spit. The vendor did yell at the boy, but he continued to heckle it by tapping on it! This may have been an isolated incident, however, I feel that if Zac witnessed something similar to that with a young boy and a Black Pakistan Cobra he had a right to feel strong concern and voice it on the forum to let the TSHS be more aware that this can happen at their show. If something would happen(heaven forbid!) at their show, it would be devastating to the overall public image of serious herpers. I believe that is the point Zac was attempting to make.
Now, the TSHS, just because Zac started this doesn’t mean that your responses to some of his valid and I believe reasonable concerns were not uncalled for! As a professional society in its early stages, I understand your strong desire to ward off any negative publicity on the forum; however, you need to realize that the way you respond should not stoop to his level (although I do not fully believe his level is all that low---he did have valid concerns for protecting the herp. image and the validity of the science). You should listen to yourself and not reply to a Rant with a Rant. Please know that I noted some of your valid points made in the previous paragraph; however, I want to point out some of your bad points(just as I did with Zac---in order to be fair and unbiased). Zac noted that he did not ask to be a member, he apparently gave a talk and was given a membership complimentary. If this was the case, do NOT yell at someone who did NOT choose to make this society a top priority in his life. Rather, you should thank him for every bit of help he does provide. Even if only one person came to your show as a result of him, that is one person you did not have attend before….and they may in turn recruit their friends and start a sort-of chain reaction so-to-speak! You yourself kept attacking him for NOT doing more when you said that MOST members do NOTHING….which I believe is LESS than Zac has done. Turn your tyrade against those members, not against the one who help in his own little way(even though he has admitted that this is not a big part of his life---his education is….which is a NOBLE endeavor in this day-and-age). He at least is a member who showed concern and wanted to point out valid aspects that need to be changed. According to you, most don’t even show enough concern to stand-up and speak.
In closing, Back Off each other….both sides made valid points….quit tearing each other down!