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Posted by graham(UK) on January 06, 2002 at 16:34:04:

In Reply to: Re: In MY defence........ posted by Justin on January 06, 2002 at 16:17:43:

Hi Justin,
Tell me , how did you acquire your torts. Did you buy yours?

When did you give the "greek or the Leo " the choice of choosing if they mixed or not?

Had I not purchased my torts, someone else in the UK would have.....poss by now they may have died.

Do you not have ppl int he USA who "import" torts?

The fact that they are growing DOES mean they are thriving.

BTW, I do have Leopards, & Russians & Box turtles & chameleons & most important......A life.

graham(UK)

: : Lets clear up some points,

: Ye lets

: : 1. My torts were being sold by the pet trade in the UK before I purchased them. I DID NOT BRING THEM FROM THE WARMER CLIMES TO THE UK FOR SALE.

: Yes but by purchasing them, you supported the trade which probably brought more animals into the UK.

: : 3. As I told you ppl, my torts make their own decision as to whether to venture outside or not. I DID NOT PUT THEM OUTSIDE FOR THE PIC. The pic didn't tell the whole story, as that they stayed outside for only a short while, before returning to the heat indoors.

: It is not a good choice, the choice should not be availlable. This argument is not defendable, "it was their choice that they got ran over by a car", "they had fresh water availlable, they didn't have to drink the bleach". These arguments are quite similar to yours.

: : 5. My torts have seen snow before, they get rain, wind & any elements which THEY choose to go out in. Collectivly they have attained 4-5yrs of age with this regime.

: It is pretty hard to kill a sulcata, the fact they grow doesn't mean they are thriving.
: : 6. The dark colouration is due to the lack of sun
: bleaching their shells, most ppl in cooler climes will prob find this. It's not an indication of poor wellfare. Again, from ppl on this forum, with the exception of "Linda's 4.5yr old super smooth Sulcata", most are slightly lumpy, this does not mean we do'nt take care of all our torts.

: Their shells are not bleached, the darker coloration is so that the animal can absorb more heat, the lighter coloration is so they can reflect the sun, to protect against the heat.

: : Now mixing species, that risky, ok if you get away with it in the short term.

: There is no way that mixing species is more problematic than allowing animals to be outside in extremely cold temps. You can get away with it because you have sulcatas. If you had leopards or stars they would be dead.

Follow Ups:

Re: reply....... Justin 01/06/02 (18)
- Re: reply....... Tim 01/06/02 (0)
- Re: reply....... graham(UK) 01/06/02 (16)
  - Re: reply....... Justin 01/06/02 (15)
    - Re: reply....... Stuart McArthur 01/07/02 (14)
      - Re: reply....... Justin 01/07/02 (13)
        
        Re: reply....... Stuart McArthur 01/07/02 (11)
        
        Now this, this is substance. Justin 01/07/02 (10)
        
        Re: Now this, this is substance. Stuart McArthur 01/08/02 (9)
        
        Great Reading, you haven't lost me yet! N/P Susan 01/10/02 (0)
        
        To my knowledge Justin 01/08/02 (4)
        
        Re: To my knowledge Stuart McArthur 01/09/02 (3)
        
        Re: To my knowledge Justin 01/09/02 (2)
        
        Re: To my knowledge Stuart McArthur 01/09/02 (1)
        
        Re: To my knowledge Justin 01/09/02 (0)
        
        Mixing species EJ 01/08/02 (2)
        
        Some are mixing species & selling on these classifieds! Susan 01/10/02 (1)
        
        That box turtle ad caught my attention too... EJ 01/10/02 (0)
        
        Not cool at all. n/p EJ 01/07/02 (0)

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: Hi Justin, : Tell me , how did you acquire your torts. Did you buy yours? : When did you give the "greek or the Leo " the choice of choosing if they mixed or not? : Had I not purchased my torts, someone else in the UK would have.....poss by now they may have died. : Do you not have ppl int he USA who "import" torts? : The fact that they are growing DOES mean they are thriving. : BTW, I do have Leopards, & Russians & Box turtles & chameleons & most important......A life. : graham(UK) : : : : Lets clear up some points, : : Ye lets : : : 1. My torts were being sold by the pet trade in the UK before I purchased them. I DID NOT BRING THEM FROM THE WARMER CLIMES TO THE UK FOR SALE. : : Yes but by purchasing them, you supported the trade which probably brought more animals into the UK. : : : 3. As I told you ppl, my torts make their own decision as to whether to venture outside or not. I DID NOT PUT THEM OUTSIDE FOR THE PIC. The pic didn't tell the whole story, as that they stayed outside for only a short while, before returning to the heat indoors. : : It is not a good choice, the choice should not be availlable. This argument is not defendable, "it was their choice that they got ran over by a car", "they had fresh water availlable, they didn't have to drink the bleach". These arguments are quite similar to yours. : : : 5. My torts have seen snow before, they get rain, wind & any elements which THEY choose to go out in. Collectivly they have attained 4-5yrs of age with this regime. : : It is pretty hard to kill a sulcata, the fact they grow doesn't mean they are thriving. : : : 6. The dark colouration is due to the lack of sun : : bleaching their shells, most ppl in cooler climes will prob find this. It's not an indication of poor wellfare. Again, from ppl on this forum, with the exception of "Linda's 4.5yr old super smooth Sulcata", most are slightly lumpy, this does not mean we do'nt take care of all our torts. : : Their shells are not bleached, the darker coloration is so that the animal can absorb more heat, the lighter coloration is so they can reflect the sun, to protect against the heat. : : : Now mixing species, that risky, ok if you get away with it in the short term. : : There is no way that mixing species is more problematic than allowing animals to be outside in extremely cold temps. You can get away with it because you have sulcatas. If you had leopards or stars they would be dead.

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