Graham, please fwd to forum on my behalf........

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Posted by Stuart McArthur on December 30, 2001 at 08:41:08:

In Reply to: mixing of species theory........... posted by graham(UK) on December 29, 2001 at 12:52:24:

Dear disease fearing tortoise keepers,

In the ARAV proceedings Orlando Florida I presented a paper entitled Emerging Viral Associated Diseases of UK Captive Chelonians. This described two outbreaks of disease in collection following introductions or mixing. The most convincing episode involved the deaths of 24 T hermanni and 4 G pardalis from a herpesvirus associated episode of lymphoproliferation ( similar to Mareks disease of poultry).

The work Of Elliot Jacobson, Francesco Origgi, Dr Marschang in Germany and myself suggests that herpes and other viral carriage, not to mention mycoplasmosis, is common in ALL types of chelonians. Sometimes you can mix and get away with it. However we have MANY well-defined reports of those that didn�t.

My advice is seek viral screening tests now available from Florida university and about 2 years off in Europe and ask the advice of those who are aware of infectious diseases of chelonians rather than take the roulette bullet into your collection. Hundreds of dead tortoises support this argument. If anyone wants details of up to 50 veterinary papers on viral associated disease outbreaks in chelonians then please contact me off line (hohovet@aol.com). There will be an interesting round table discussion in the next edition of Journal of Herpetological Medicine and Surgery on herpesvirus in terrestrial chelonians so perhaps go to you library for this. Herpesvirus is only one thing to fear.

Wholesale and retail outlets should be encouraged to isolate chelonians into small groups of the same species. Retailers should be made aware that chelonians might become infected with viral and other agents during contact with fomites or other reptiles during their care. With regard to diseases such as Lymphoproliferative disease, this could result in clinical signs of disease a considerable time after animals were exposed to other chelonians (> 8 months).

Chelonians at reptile dealerships should be quarantined and considered potentially infections to others, especially when recently imported and/or wild captured. Imported reptiles should have appropriate examination and antiparasitic therapy at point of entry (Burridge, 2000). Reptile dealerships should be encouraged to use appropriate disinfection and quarantine/barrier nursing techniques when dealing with all chelonians, even where such animals appear clinically normal.

Newly acquired chelonians should not be introduced into previously closed colonies without appropriate heath screening and quarantine. Molecular viral screening tests should be encouraged where available. All chelonians should be regarded as potentially carrying infectious agents. Clinically normal individuals isolated or quarantined for several years cannot be guaranteed as free from infectious agents.

Please don�t let us keep learning the same lesson - that tortoise colonies FREQUENTLY experience dramatic die offs following introduction of disease carrying but clinically normal animals.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New year everybody

Stuart McArthur B Vet Med MRCVS (AKA Pirate Pete & Slim)
The Tortoise Clinic, Leeds, UK

: I was wondering, from the post's below, if those of you who do mix different species are paying such a small amount $ for your tortoise/turtles, that you can well afford to "play russian ruelette" with them.
: My theory is that those of you who are paying say $15-$30 for a "boxie", $40 for Russians, less than �100 for most other species, can well afford to mix them.
: Unlike us here in the UK, where �150 ($225) is more like the normal everyday price of the boxies, with Russians, Sulcatas, Leopards coming in at around �200 ($300). The Testudo species are around �100-�150 cb. Spiders around �600+ each.

: Could this be why some of you are allowing the species to mix?
: There are many ppl who have lost entire collections from disease's, even after a quarrantine period, due to the fact that "bugs" which one specie can tollerate another specie can not.

: Just wondering......
: regards
: graham(UK)

Follow Ups:

mixing species... EJ 12/30/01 (0)
Re: Graham, please fwd to forum on my behalf........ Justin 12/30/01 (7)
- fwd;reply for Justin Stuart McArthur 12/30/01 (6)
  - Re: fwd;reply for Justin Justin 12/30/01 (5)
    - Re:fwd; fwd;reply for Justin Stuart McArthur 12/30/01 (4)
      - Re:fwd; fwd;reply for Justin Justin 12/30/01 (3)
        
        Re:fwd; fwd;reply for Justin Stuart McArthur 12/31/01 (2)
        
        Re:fwd; fwd;reply for Justin Justin 12/31/01 (0)
        
        mixing species. EJ 12/31/01 (0)

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: Dear disease fearing tortoise keepers, : In the ARAV proceedings Orlando Florida I presented a paper entitled Emerging Viral Associated Diseases of UK Captive Chelonians. This described two outbreaks of disease in collection following introductions or mixing. The most convincing episode involved the deaths of 24 T hermanni and 4 G pardalis from a herpesvirus associated episode of lymphoproliferation ( similar to Mareks disease of poultry). : The work Of Elliot Jacobson, Francesco Origgi, Dr Marschang in Germany and myself suggests that herpes and other viral carriage, not to mention mycoplasmosis, is common in ALL types of chelonians. Sometimes you can mix and get away with it. However we have MANY well-defined reports of those that didn�t. : My advice is seek viral screening tests now available from Florida university and about 2 years off in Europe and ask the advice of those who are aware of infectious diseases of chelonians rather than take the roulette bullet into your collection. Hundreds of dead tortoises support this argument. If anyone wants details of up to 50 veterinary papers on viral associated disease outbreaks in chelonians then please contact me off line (hohovet@aol.com). There will be an interesting round table discussion in the next edition of Journal of Herpetological Medicine and Surgery on herpesvirus in terrestrial chelonians so perhaps go to you library for this. Herpesvirus is only one thing to fear. : Wholesale and retail outlets should be encouraged to isolate chelonians into small groups of the same species. Retailers should be made aware that chelonians might become infected with viral and other agents during contact with fomites or other reptiles during their care. With regard to diseases such as Lymphoproliferative disease, this could result in clinical signs of disease a considerable time after animals were exposed to other chelonians (> 8 months). : Chelonians at reptile dealerships should be quarantined and considered potentially infections to others, especially when recently imported and/or wild captured. Imported reptiles should have appropriate examination and antiparasitic therapy at point of entry (Burridge, 2000). Reptile dealerships should be encouraged to use appropriate disinfection and quarantine/barrier nursing techniques when dealing with all chelonians, even where such animals appear clinically normal. : Newly acquired chelonians should not be introduced into previously closed colonies without appropriate heath screening and quarantine. Molecular viral screening tests should be encouraged where available. All chelonians should be regarded as potentially carrying infectious agents. Clinically normal individuals isolated or quarantined for several years cannot be guaranteed as free from infectious agents. : Please don�t let us keep learning the same lesson - that tortoise colonies FREQUENTLY experience dramatic die offs following introduction of disease carrying but clinically normal animals. : Merry Christmas and a Happy New year everybody : Stuart McArthur B Vet Med MRCVS (AKA Pirate Pete & Slim) : The Tortoise Clinic, Leeds, UK : : I was wondering, from the post's below, if those of you who do mix different species are paying such a small amount $ for your tortoise/turtles, that you can well afford to "play russian ruelette" with them. : : My theory is that those of you who are paying say $15-$30 for a "boxie", $40 for Russians, less than �100 for most other species, can well afford to mix them. : : Unlike us here in the UK, where �150 ($225) is more like the normal everyday price of the boxies, with Russians, Sulcatas, Leopards coming in at around �200 ($300). The Testudo species are around �100-�150 cb. Spiders around �600+ each. : : Could this be why some of you are allowing the species to mix? : : There are many ppl who have lost entire collections from disease's, even after a quarrantine period, due to the fact that "bugs" which one specie can tollerate another specie can not. : : Just wondering...... : : regards : : graham(UK)

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