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Posted by Joshua on October 25, 2001 at 08:46:08:

In Reply to: Re: Leopard tortoise, and general questions.. posted by Marissa-Turtle Homes on October 25, 2001 at 08:12:38:

Here's the place I was referrign to as for the diet...
http://gto.ncsa.uiuc.edu/pingleto/herps/CASH/leopard.html

"It captivity it is a common error to feed too much 'wet' food such as lettuce, tomatoes and fruit; in reality this tortoise requires a coarse, high fibre diet. Feeding excessive fruit or 'soft' foods frequently leads to repeated flagellate and other gut problems such as colic, most probably as a result of increased gut motility. "

That's why I was leaning to the tortoise pellets... Will they eat dried alfalfa (like rabbits eat)? Grass is easy in the summer when she's outside.. I'm more concerend for the winter. I ahve the UVB area and the room for temp gradient... the pen is about 8 feet long and 3 feet wide (will obviously get bigger as she does). I was thinkging of the heater at one end... a top (just to keep heat from eascaping and to prevent drafts (as i keep ym heat set at 65), and sides that come up about 20 inches and are open for that last 20 inches before the top (in the middle.. more enclosed on teh warm end and lower walls on the cool end) This allows air flow, but preventsthe entire room from being 75 degreees. So it's not as enclosed as I made it sound before. Do you still think this is a bad setup?

thanks again for the help. I just want to make her happy.

: Hate to say it but I think you have the wrong idea to start.

: Leopard tortoises are arid tortoises, but they do not do well in enclosed "vivaria-type" pens. You should be thinking open-topped, low sided pen with plenty of fresh air moving around...like a sandbox look. Keeping heat is is the wrong idea. You want heat to be able to escape. You want your room temperatures stable and in the low 70's probably. You want to create a temperature gradient so that you have a hot zone and a cool zone and a midzone in the middle. A ceramic heat emitter is okay for the hot zone basking area, but you also need UVB lighting if you cannot provide regular daily outdoor time under direct sunlight (NOT filtered through a window). In an enclosed pen, you are probably going to run into serious problems maintaining a temperature gradient, as well as having a stale, heated environment. A temperature gradient allows the tortoise to choose it's temperature and thereby regulate it's body temps.

: I would not recommend using anything portable and electric in an enclosed pen with a tortoise...that sounds like an accident waiting to happen, besides sounding like you are trying to cook the tortoise...the idea is just enough heat, not a ton of it. You want the temperatures to be correct, not just pile on heating elements. Make sure you are carefully monitoring temperatures by using a portable thermometer that you can move around and measure temps on various parts of the floor.

: For substrate indoors, many folks use alfalfa pellets, aspen particles, carefresh bedding, and some natural beddings.

: Your diet idea is not good. Alot of greens can't be bad, that is what the tortoise is designed to eat, digest, and process. Where have you done your research??? Try viewing some of the better leopard tortoise care sheets out there, sounds like you got some bad information from someone. Alot of wet lettuces aren't good, but they are designed to eat coarse leafy weeds, grasses and clovers. Check out www.turtlestuff.com and www.turtlecafe.net for more info and products. Commercial tortoise food is IMHO only for use in emergencies. When so many more natural foods are readily available, there is no reason to use tortoise pellets, again IMHO. Most tortoise diet has a protein ratio that is too high for the herbivorous species. But besides that, they are not natural foods. I don't recommend feeding fruit at all as a regular part of the diet, although a strawberry or melon chunk from time to time as a treat will be well accepted.

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: Here's the place I was referrign to as for the diet... : http://gto.ncsa.uiuc.edu/pingleto/herps/CASH/leopard.html : "It captivity it is a common error to feed too much 'wet' food such as lettuce, tomatoes and fruit; in reality this tortoise requires a coarse, high fibre diet. Feeding excessive fruit or 'soft' foods frequently leads to repeated flagellate and other gut problems such as colic, most probably as a result of increased gut motility. " : That's why I was leaning to the tortoise pellets... Will they eat dried alfalfa (like rabbits eat)? Grass is easy in the summer when she's outside.. I'm more concerend for the winter. I ahve the UVB area and the room for temp gradient... the pen is about 8 feet long and 3 feet wide (will obviously get bigger as she does). I was thinkging of the heater at one end... a top (just to keep heat from eascaping and to prevent drafts (as i keep ym heat set at 65), and sides that come up about 20 inches and are open for that last 20 inches before the top (in the middle.. more enclosed on teh warm end and lower walls on the cool end) This allows air flow, but preventsthe entire room from being 75 degreees. So it's not as enclosed as I made it sound before. Do you still think this is a bad setup? : thanks again for the help. I just want to make her happy. : : : Hate to say it but I think you have the wrong idea to start. : : Leopard tortoises are arid tortoises, but they do not do well in enclosed "vivaria-type" pens. You should be thinking open-topped, low sided pen with plenty of fresh air moving around...like a sandbox look. Keeping heat is is the wrong idea. You want heat to be able to escape. You want your room temperatures stable and in the low 70's probably. You want to create a temperature gradient so that you have a hot zone and a cool zone and a midzone in the middle. A ceramic heat emitter is okay for the hot zone basking area, but you also need UVB lighting if you cannot provide regular daily outdoor time under direct sunlight (NOT filtered through a window). In an enclosed pen, you are probably going to run into serious problems maintaining a temperature gradient, as well as having a stale, heated environment. A temperature gradient allows the tortoise to choose it's temperature and thereby regulate it's body temps. : : I would not recommend using anything portable and electric in an enclosed pen with a tortoise...that sounds like an accident waiting to happen, besides sounding like you are trying to cook the tortoise...the idea is just enough heat, not a ton of it. You want the temperatures to be correct, not just pile on heating elements. Make sure you are carefully monitoring temperatures by using a portable thermometer that you can move around and measure temps on various parts of the floor. : : For substrate indoors, many folks use alfalfa pellets, aspen particles, carefresh bedding, and some natural beddings. : : Your diet idea is not good. Alot of greens can't be bad, that is what the tortoise is designed to eat, digest, and process. Where have you done your research??? Try viewing some of the better leopard tortoise care sheets out there, sounds like you got some bad information from someone. Alot of wet lettuces aren't good, but they are designed to eat coarse leafy weeds, grasses and clovers. Check out www.turtlestuff.com and www.turtlecafe.net for more info and products. Commercial tortoise food is IMHO only for use in emergencies. When so many more natural foods are readily available, there is no reason to use tortoise pellets, again IMHO. Most tortoise diet has a protein ratio that is too high for the herbivorous species. But besides that, they are not natural foods. I don't recommend feeding fruit at all as a regular part of the diet, although a strawberry or melon chunk from time to time as a treat will be well accepted.

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