Re: Hatchlings

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Posted by Joe on January 09, 1999 at 16:03:01:

In Reply to: Re: Hatchlings posted by Murphy Law on January 09, 1999 at 00:24:18:

: > Hatchling turtles seem to be making their way back into pet stores, violating
: > the FDA ban on sale of turtles < 4" carapace length. The local Petland in the
: > mall here in Missoula has a big tank with lots of little sliders and Miss map
: > turtles. To buy one you have to sign a waiver (promising you won't put it in
: > your mouth, and presumably declaring yourself an educational or scientific
: > institution to "satisfy" the regs). I don't know if this is limited to this
: > one store or is occurring throughout the whole chain.

: You can also get hatchlings at reptile shows. Granted, those attending are
: generally eager to pay admission and know what they are looking for, let alone
: promising not to put them in their mouths.

: Me for example, I attended the Austin Reptile Show on 7 Nov 98, with one purpose.
: My mission was to find Indian Star tortoises. I had previously done my research
: and had found that they were hard to come by except for hatchlings. I found three
: hatchlings at this show, all under the supervision of a dweeb known to me as Mike
: Shipp. I circled the room and found that he was the only guy with the stars. Funny
: thing was, he was also standing behind the table sponsored by Russ Gurley -
: founder of the Turtle and Tortoise Preservation Group ( http://www.batagur.com/ )
: in Oklahoma City, OK. I recognized Russ from his display of tshirts showing
: endangered reptiles - which I had found while surfing the web, so I trusted his
: companion Mike as well.

: Mike was eager to sell me two hatchlings and took my credit card in for swiping.
: Upon his return, I offered him my business card as I had just handed him $800 of
: my money. His response was short of business like yet I continued on my way.

: two days later, upon having my new members of my family seen by a vet who was a
: self claimed reptile expert, they were declared healthy. Several days after that,
: I realized they weren't. It was too late. One of my hatchlings died of a
: respiratory infection not 10 days after I took posession and the second was in
: serious trouble. The original vet was fired and a new vet ultimately saved the
: life of the remaining hatchling.

: We nursed it back to life from its deathbed for a period of 3 weeks. A followup
: exam revealed that in addition to having a serious respiratory problem, this poor
: bullied hatchling was also suffering from a mild case of pinworms. A 5 week
: session with Panacur has resulted in this hatchling receiving a clean bill of
: health from the vet.

: This does not speak too highly for Michael Shipp or Russ Gurley who, once they
: learned of my troubles, cut off all contact with me, period. I have complained to
: my credit card company, only to find that it was charged shortly thereafter by an
: adult content website via the internet. I consider this to be Oklahoma style
: retribution.

: These people are not healthy for your pocket. if you feel a need to give them
: money, think twice.

: Meanwhile, DW - the now HEALTHY Indian Star tortoise can be checked up on (as well
: as the full story) at:

: http://members.tripod.com/~IndianStar

: Peace be with you.

I have had a similar exprience with mail order. I ordered
a female russian tortoise from a dealer in florida.
The dealer told me satisfaction was guarenteed. He sent
a male 4" long! He told me he picked it out himself and it
was a female of breeder size. I have been breeding them for
5 years and this was not a female. I sent him the tortoise back
but he would not refund my money. I finally settled for a
relacement. This was sent 2nd day mail and arived
in horrible shape. It was severely dehydrated and had a
severe respiratory infection. After a couple of hundred
bucks at the vet (he is highly qualified) the tortoise died.
I would not buy anything from Bill Pierce in
Fort Meyers Florida.
money so I eventually settled fo a replacement. He sent a female

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: : > Hatchling turtles seem to be making their way back into pet stores, violating : : > the FDA ban on sale of turtles < 4" carapace length. The local Petland in the : : > mall here in Missoula has a big tank with lots of little sliders and Miss map : : > turtles. To buy one you have to sign a waiver (promising you won't put it in : : > your mouth, and presumably declaring yourself an educational or scientific : : > institution to "satisfy" the regs). I don't know if this is limited to this : : > one store or is occurring throughout the whole chain. : : You can also get hatchlings at reptile shows. Granted, those attending are : : generally eager to pay admission and know what they are looking for, let alone : : promising not to put them in their mouths. : : Me for example, I attended the Austin Reptile Show on 7 Nov 98, with one purpose. : : My mission was to find Indian Star tortoises. I had previously done my research : : and had found that they were hard to come by except for hatchlings. I found three : : hatchlings at this show, all under the supervision of a dweeb known to me as Mike : : Shipp. I circled the room and found that he was the only guy with the stars. Funny : : thing was, he was also standing behind the table sponsored by Russ Gurley - : : founder of the Turtle and Tortoise Preservation Group ( http://www.batagur.com/ ) : : in Oklahoma City, OK. I recognized Russ from his display of tshirts showing : : endangered reptiles - which I had found while surfing the web, so I trusted his : : companion Mike as well. : : Mike was eager to sell me two hatchlings and took my credit card in for swiping. : : Upon his return, I offered him my business card as I had just handed him $800 of : : my money. His response was short of business like yet I continued on my way. : : two days later, upon having my new members of my family seen by a vet who was a : : self claimed reptile expert, they were declared healthy. Several days after that, : : I realized they weren't. It was too late. One of my hatchlings died of a : : respiratory infection not 10 days after I took posession and the second was in : : serious trouble. The original vet was fired and a new vet ultimately saved the : : life of the remaining hatchling. : : We nursed it back to life from its deathbed for a period of 3 weeks. A followup : : exam revealed that in addition to having a serious respiratory problem, this poor : : bullied hatchling was also suffering from a mild case of pinworms. A 5 week : : session with Panacur has resulted in this hatchling receiving a clean bill of : : health from the vet. : : This does not speak too highly for Michael Shipp or Russ Gurley who, once they : : learned of my troubles, cut off all contact with me, period. I have complained to : : my credit card company, only to find that it was charged shortly thereafter by an : : adult content website via the internet. I consider this to be Oklahoma style : : retribution. : : These people are not healthy for your pocket. if you feel a need to give them : : money, think twice. : : Meanwhile, DW - the now HEALTHY Indian Star tortoise can be checked up on (as well : : as the full story) at: : : http://members.tripod.com/~IndianStar : : Peace be with you. : I have had a similar exprience with mail order. I ordered : a female russian tortoise from a dealer in florida. : The dealer told me satisfaction was guarenteed. He sent : a male 4" long! He told me he picked it out himself and it : was a female of breeder size. I have been breeding them for : 5 years and this was not a female. I sent him the tortoise back : but he would not refund my money. I finally settled for a : relacement. This was sent 2nd day mail and arived : in horrible shape. It was severely dehydrated and had a : severe respiratory infection. After a couple of hundred : bucks at the vet (he is highly qualified) the tortoise died. : I would not buy anything from Bill Pierce in : Fort Meyers Florida. : money so I eventually settled fo a replacement. He sent a female

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