Misinformation is a dangerous thing.

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Posted by ANNIE LANCASTER-TORTOISEAID on August 02, 2001 at 03:53:59:

In Reply to: Re: Thankyou all that responded to help me out.//NP posted by Theresa on August 01, 2001 at 23:32:51:

: Hi Justin,
: Its a shame that laws are like they are and so inconsistent from state to state.
: It used to bother me that the CA laws don't permit ppl to breed these animals (but they do adopt them out in pairs).

No no no no.......

DT's are not adopted out in pairs here! EVER! I'd lose my permits if I did that in a heartbeat, and any DT's here WOULD BE CONFISCATED BY the WARDEN. Anyone who is doing placing pairs is only doing it because they are not aware of current laws. Males are placed alone, females with other females, no exceptions ever.

:See, CA or AZ laws don't apply elsewhere where these guys are not native.

And they do not belong in areas not native to them really, most get ill and die, even when placed within these states in areas which are not sub-desert or desert. We only place within cerain counties because of microclimate problems.

:not It just seems strange that there are ppl in neighboring states that breed them but cant give you a c/b.

Well, it's called a violation of the Lacey Act as well as the Endangered Species Act..and is a felony. Interstate trafficking of protected species is serious business.

: Texas Torts don't have nearly the protection that your native guys do.

From what has been posted here previously, it has been said that the mere mention of Gopherus in Texas will get someone in trouble? That you tell people to keep hush-hush? That information was posted by you. In TX, Gopherus berlandieri is indeed listed as threatened. In addition, it is protected by the Endangered Species Act. No sales, no keeping without a permit, no interstate trafficking. What's so different?

: Your post only reminds me of just how much Texas Parks and Wild Life should evaluate a similar program for its native displaced Tortoises that don't qualify for sanctuaries. Its sad that a person could keep one of these in say a NY apt

And where did that person GET that tortoise?? Illegally most of the time.

:but the ones that don't have a known history, are either destroyed,

???? WHAT??!! Not here they aren't!!!!! Good gawd! They are placed in pre-approved homes with people who have been educated in their care, who have had an inspection, and have passed other requirements. It is not a RIGHT to keep a native tortoise, it is a privelidge, the adopting party does not own it, and is only it's caretaker. We just placed 11 males 2 days ago...no tortoise was destroyed for gawd's sake and none ever has been.

:confined to tiny overcrowded pens to live out their lives

tiny overcrowded "pens?" Interesting..

:and only to have their eggs destroyed.

Eggs here are destroyed, yes. This is the law. If you saw upto 80% of wild tortosies in any given area DEAD...shells lying in the sun rotting from mycoplasma and herpesvirus, maybe you wouldn't be so critical and quick to judge. How many mycoplasma positive tortoises have you treated in your life? It is far from pretty, and is a disease I see *daily* here. Many cative animals are latent carriers for Mycoplasma agassizii as well as Herpesvirus, so breeding animals in a backyard situation is NOT a good idea (that is if you care about animal suffering and WILD tortoise survival issues) Mycoplasma and herpesvirus exist because of animals which have escaped, and those which have been dumped back out into the desert to have a wonderful "wild life" as they KILL all of thier cousins with these viruses and bacteria. We also have enough adult animals in need of homes without bringing yet more into the world. Breeding and re-introduction into the wild is best left to educated professionals who know what they're doing. Not Joe Q Public.

: Interesting thread.

That's for certain..

Annie Lancaster
Director, TortoiseAid
and Desert Tortoise Rehabber, in the Mojave Desert of California.

TortoiseAid on the Web

Follow Ups:

Re: Misinformation is a dangerous thing. Minnie 08/02/01 (1)
- Re: Misinformation is a dangerous thing. Annie Lancaster-TortoiseAid 08/03/01 (0)
Whoops! Wrong picture! Annie Lancaster 08/02/01 (0)

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: : Hi Justin, : : Its a shame that laws are like they are and so inconsistent from state to state. : : It used to bother me that the CA laws don't permit ppl to breed these animals (but they do adopt them out in pairs). : No no no no....... : : DT's are not adopted out in pairs here! EVER! I'd lose my permits if I did that in a heartbeat, and any DT's here WOULD BE CONFISCATED BY the WARDEN. Anyone who is doing placing pairs is only doing it because they are not aware of current laws. Males are placed alone, females with other females, no exceptions ever. : :See, CA or AZ laws don't apply elsewhere where these guys are not native. : And they do not belong in areas not native to them really, most get ill and die, even when placed within these states in areas which are not sub-desert or desert. We only place within cerain counties because of microclimate problems. : :not It just seems strange that there are ppl in neighboring states that breed them but cant give you a c/b. : Well, it's called a violation of the Lacey Act as well as the Endangered Species Act..and is a felony. Interstate trafficking of protected species is serious business. : : Texas Torts don't have nearly the protection that your native guys do. : From what has been posted here previously, it has been said that the mere mention of Gopherus in Texas will get someone in trouble? That you tell people to keep hush-hush? That information was posted by you. In TX, Gopherus berlandieri is indeed listed as threatened. In addition, it is protected by the Endangered Species Act. No sales, no keeping without a permit, no interstate trafficking. What's so different? : : : Your post only reminds me of just how much Texas Parks and Wild Life should evaluate a similar program for its native displaced Tortoises that don't qualify for sanctuaries. Its sad that a person could keep one of these in say a NY apt : And where did that person GET that tortoise?? Illegally most of the time. : :but the ones that don't have a known history, are either destroyed, : ???? WHAT??!! Not here they aren't!!!!! Good gawd! They are placed in pre-approved homes with people who have been educated in their care, who have had an inspection, and have passed other requirements. It is not a RIGHT to keep a native tortoise, it is a privelidge, the adopting party does not own it, and is only it's caretaker. We just placed 11 males 2 days ago...no tortoise was destroyed for gawd's sake and none ever has been. : :confined to tiny overcrowded pens to live out their lives : tiny overcrowded "pens?" Interesting.. : :and only to have their eggs destroyed. : Eggs here are destroyed, yes. This is the law. If you saw upto 80% of wild tortosies in any given area DEAD...shells lying in the sun rotting from mycoplasma and herpesvirus, maybe you wouldn't be so critical and quick to judge. How many mycoplasma positive tortoises have you treated in your life? It is far from pretty, and is a disease I see *daily* here. Many cative animals are latent carriers for Mycoplasma agassizii as well as Herpesvirus, so breeding animals in a backyard situation is NOT a good idea (that is if you care about animal suffering and WILD tortoise survival issues) Mycoplasma and herpesvirus exist because of animals which have escaped, and those which have been dumped back out into the desert to have a wonderful "wild life" as they KILL all of thier cousins with these viruses and bacteria. We also have enough adult animals in need of homes without bringing yet more into the world. Breeding and re-introduction into the wild is best left to educated professionals who know what they're doing. Not Joe Q Public. : : Interesting thread. : : That's for certain.. : : Annie Lancaster : Director, TortoiseAid : and Desert Tortoise Rehabber, in the Mojave Desert of California.

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