Re: Terry heres what you asked for on the pyramiding

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Posted by Terry on August 01, 2001 at 15:57:39:

In Reply to: Terry heres what you asked for on the pyramiding posted by Tom on August 01, 2001 at 14:54:24:

Hi Tom.
Here are some suggestions.

I would get them into a larger enclosure if possible.

If you have a yard, certainly build an outdoor enclosure for them.Even if they can only go outdoors during the summer months.
The natural sunlight and grazing works wonders.

I would go a minimum of 6'-6' for the outdoor enclosure,for the time being.Obviously it will need to be extended as they grow.

Build the enclosure on a grassy area of the yard so they can graze on the grasses/weeds.
Grazing is very important for both of these species. For the sulcata it's extremely important.

Sulcatas are grazing herbivores who require a high fiber (grasses and weeds etc)low fat, low protein diet.

Make sure the enclosure recieves sun, but that shady areas are alway available too. The enclosure should never be in complete sun, there must always be shade as well.

Make sure the enclosure is escape proof, the walls must be high enough that the torts can't climb out.
And there must be no gaps that they can crawl under, squeeze through or dig under and out.

Most people dig a trench and sink the walls into the ground a few inches to avoid the torts digging under.

You can build a 6'-6' enclosure using eight - 6' long fencing boards.
Measure the boarder and dig a trench at least 4" deep. Place 4 of the boards in to make a 6'-6' box.
Use wooden stakes hammered into the ground to nail the boards to. And nail the boards together at the corners, where they meet.

Layer the 4 remaining boards on top of the bottom boards, to make the walls higher.

So you will have a 6'-6' box, the walls will be 2 boards high. Two boards for each side.

Total 8 boards and the wooden stakes every couple of feet.
Total cost around $60-75. If you have dogs you will want to make the walls higher so they can't jump into the pen.

If racoons or other predators are a problem in your area, you might have to add a top to the pen, lattice or such.

My baby sulcatas pen is 12'-6', I just used more boards to build a bigger enclosure.
Put the tortoises out in the pen when the weather permits (I don't know which state you live in).
At that size I would put them out during the day and bring them indoors again, in the late afternoon.
Keep them indoors during wet and cold weather.

I would also change the diet and STOP feeding the monkey buscuits. They are way too high in protein to feed to most tortoises.
Yes they might make them grow faster, but it will be unatural growth, as in the pyramiding you're seeing.
Slow, steady, natural growth is what you want.

Romaine lettuce is fine as part of a varied diet, but not as the only ingredient, there must be more variety.
Feed a variety daily, not just one type:
Romaine lettuce, endive (a great favorite and healthy too)dandelions, escarole, chicory, watercress, hibiscus flowers and leaves (you can grow your own right in your yard)mulberry leaves, opuntia cactus and of course grazing outdoors on grasses and weeds etc.

Collard greens can be added in sometimes in small amounts, but should not be a main ingredient, carrot tops, mustard greens (if you can get your torts to eat them, I cant!)

Don't rely only on grocery greens, add in hibiscus, opuntia, mulberry etc and avoid spinach, chard and ice burg lettuce.

Spinach and chard contain high levels of oxalic acid, oxalic acid interferes with the tortoises ability to absorb calcium. So stay away from those.
Iceburg lettuce has no nutritional value, it's an empty food, so avoid it.
But whatever you do STOP feeding those monkey buscuits today.

Make sure clean water is always available in a small shallow dish for drinking.
I would also soak the torts once or twice a week for 10 minutes.
Soak in shallow lukewarm water, the water should only reach the bottom of their neck. Soaking is important to keep the torts well hydrated.

I'm not sure which type of heat bulb you're using indoors it's very possible it is not puting out UV. Most heat bulbs don't, unless it's the new ative UV heat bulb.

Sprinkle a calcium supplement on the food twice a week, it should be phosphorous free.
Rep Cal phosphorous free calcium with vit d3, is a good one. It's available at most good pet stores.
Just a small sprinkle a couple of times a week.

I hope this helps, let us know if you have more questions.
Here are some web sites that might be a help to you:

http://www.tortoiseaid.org/sulcata.html

http://sulcatastation.homestead.com/index.html

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/care/care.html

http://www.turtlecafe.net/habitats.htm

Terry.

Follow Ups:

Re: Terry heres what you asked for on the pyramiding Tom 08/01/01 (0)
oxalic acid Justin 08/01/01 (4)
- Re: oxalic acid Justin 08/01/01 (2)
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    - The Third Time Is The Charm ///NP Justin 08/01/01 (0)
- Re: oxalic acid Terry 08/01/01 (0)

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Comments:
: Hi Tom. : Here are some suggestions. : I would get them into a larger enclosure if possible. : If you have a yard, certainly build an outdoor enclosure for them.Even if they can only go outdoors during the summer months. : The natural sunlight and grazing works wonders. : I would go a minimum of 6'-6' for the outdoor enclosure,for the time being.Obviously it will need to be extended as they grow. : Build the enclosure on a grassy area of the yard so they can graze on the grasses/weeds. : Grazing is very important for both of these species. For the sulcata it's extremely important. : Sulcatas are grazing herbivores who require a high fiber (grasses and weeds etc)low fat, low protein diet. : Make sure the enclosure recieves sun, but that shady areas are alway available too. The enclosure should never be in complete sun, there must always be shade as well. : Make sure the enclosure is escape proof, the walls must be high enough that the torts can't climb out. : And there must be no gaps that they can crawl under, squeeze through or dig under and out. : Most people dig a trench and sink the walls into the ground a few inches to avoid the torts digging under. : You can build a 6'-6' enclosure using eight - 6' long fencing boards. : Measure the boarder and dig a trench at least 4" deep. Place 4 of the boards in to make a 6'-6' box. : Use wooden stakes hammered into the ground to nail the boards to. And nail the boards together at the corners, where they meet. : Layer the 4 remaining boards on top of the bottom boards, to make the walls higher. : So you will have a 6'-6' box, the walls will be 2 boards high. Two boards for each side. : Total 8 boards and the wooden stakes every couple of feet. : Total cost around $60-75. If you have dogs you will want to make the walls higher so they can't jump into the pen. : If racoons or other predators are a problem in your area, you might have to add a top to the pen, lattice or such. : My baby sulcatas pen is 12'-6', I just used more boards to build a bigger enclosure. : Put the tortoises out in the pen when the weather permits (I don't know which state you live in). : At that size I would put them out during the day and bring them indoors again, in the late afternoon. : Keep them indoors during wet and cold weather. : I would also change the diet and STOP feeding the monkey buscuits. They are way too high in protein to feed to most tortoises. : Yes they might make them grow faster, but it will be unatural growth, as in the pyramiding you're seeing. : Slow, steady, natural growth is what you want. : Romaine lettuce is fine as part of a varied diet, but not as the only ingredient, there must be more variety. : Feed a variety daily, not just one type: : Romaine lettuce, endive (a great favorite and healthy too)dandelions, escarole, chicory, watercress, hibiscus flowers and leaves (you can grow your own right in your yard)mulberry leaves, opuntia cactus and of course grazing outdoors on grasses and weeds etc. : Collard greens can be added in sometimes in small amounts, but should not be a main ingredient, carrot tops, mustard greens (if you can get your torts to eat them, I cant!) : Don't rely only on grocery greens, add in hibiscus, opuntia, mulberry etc and avoid spinach, chard and ice burg lettuce. : Spinach and chard contain high levels of oxalic acid, oxalic acid interferes with the tortoises ability to absorb calcium. So stay away from those. : Iceburg lettuce has no nutritional value, it's an empty food, so avoid it. : But whatever you do STOP feeding those monkey buscuits today. : Make sure clean water is always available in a small shallow dish for drinking. : I would also soak the torts once or twice a week for 10 minutes. : Soak in shallow lukewarm water, the water should only reach the bottom of their neck. Soaking is important to keep the torts well hydrated. : I'm not sure which type of heat bulb you're using indoors it's very possible it is not puting out UV. Most heat bulbs don't, unless it's the new ative UV heat bulb. : Sprinkle a calcium supplement on the food twice a week, it should be phosphorous free. : Rep Cal phosphorous free calcium with vit d3, is a good one. It's available at most good pet stores. : Just a small sprinkle a couple of times a week. : I hope this helps, let us know if you have more questions. : Here are some web sites that might be a help to you: : http://www.tortoiseaid.org/sulcata.html : http://sulcatastation.homestead.com/index.html : http://www.tortoisetrust.org/care/care.html : http://www.turtlecafe.net/habitats.htm : Terry.

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