Cdn Radio Transcript - UK Tortoises

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Posted by Wes von Papine�u on January 26, 2001 at 11:57:20:

CBC RADIO (Canada) 22 January 01 As It Happens Transcript: Turtles
Guest: John Hayward [Theft Co-Ordinator For The British Chelonia Group]
Host: M. Finlay / B. Budd
BUDD: The progress has been slow but steady, and now tortoise owners might have a way of actually catching up with their pet thieves. The British Chelonia Group is a charity organization involved in tortoise preservation and conservation, and they've devised a kind of fingerprinting scheme to combat the rise in tortoise theft. The plan involves registering photographs of the plastrons (that's the undersides of the animals' shells). The plastrons are unique in the same way that fingerprints are, and the group is hoping that the photo registry will help folks find their stolen or lost pets. BUDD: John Hayward is the theft co-ordinator for the British Chelonia Group. He's in Portsmouth.
FINLAY: Mr. Hayward, are you really the theft co-ordinator for the British Chelonia Group?
HAYWARD: Well, in fact, we co-ordinate the loss and thefts of all exotic species, and the actual organization that we run is called the National Theft Register for Exotic Animals. And one of our clients in fact is the British Chelonia Group, which is the club or association that specializes in chelonia, which are tortoises, turtles and terrapins.
FINLAY: Well, how big a problem is it, the theft? How often are they stolen, for example?
HAYWARD: Well, it's something that we suffer certainly in the U.K. ever increasingly as time goes on. Year on year, we seem to have more cases reported to us. For instance, last year, the year 2000, we had ten quite substantial cases, large-scale cases of theft of such animals, tortoises, upwards of 19 actual animals stolen from domestic premises, and from importers and breeders, high numbers, several hundred were in fact stolen. HAYWARD: In addition, we dealt with a substantial number again of tortoises that were reported lost, but I'm pleased to say that the lost ones, about two-thirds were in fact found, traced and recovered.
FINLAY: So these are tortoises that wander - the lost ones - they sort of wander out of someone's garden?
HAYWARD: Invariably so, but of course it is quite difficult at times to differentiate as to whether a tortoise has in fact wandered off and strayed, -
FINLAY: Yes.
HAYWARD: - or whether in fact somebody has -
FINLAY: Yes.
HAYWARD: - actually stolen it.
FINLAY: So they're stolen, I take it, because they have a certain value.
HAYWARD: Oh, -
FINLAY: How much are they worth?
HAYWARD: The current price over here for a baby tortoise could be anything between say 200 or 300 pounds, and some species are in fact more valuable than that. So I'm afraid that they are pretty vulnerable to being stolen, of course.
FINLAY: Okay. Now, your plan is that if you get a certain professional photograph of the underside of your tortoise, it's like having his fingerprints on file.
HAYWARD: Yes, it's a relatively new system. You see, the biggest problem we have is generally lack of identification.
FINLAY: Yes.
HAYWARD: Now, if it's a parrot, you can put a ring around a parrot's foot. You can't do that with a tortoise, and albeit a lot of people in fact put some marking or engraving on the shell or what's known as the carapace, -
FINLAY: Yes.
HAYWARD: - the shell of the tortoise, that in fact is a growing, living organ in itself, like an external skeleton, and it shouldn't be disturbed in any way.
FINLAY: And anyway you don't need to put a distinctive marking on it, according to you, because it has its own, right?
HAYWARD: That's exactly the point. The carapace is the shell. If you turn the tortoise upside down and look at the underside of it, which is known as the plastron, -
FINLAY: Yes.
HAYWARD: - the actual pigmentation and pattern of that underside is unique to that particular tortoise. And albeit the tortoise as it grows over many, many years, it never loses that same distinctive pattern and pigmentation. So we therefore advise that all tortoise owners should take a close-up photograph of the underside of the tortoise and keep that on record. And certainly over here in the U.K. we have a central database as part of the British Chelonia Group where people can in fact register, having scanned into the computer system the actual photograph of their tortoise, which means that should it ever become lost or stolen and it's tracked down in somebody else's possession, it could be positively identified. We call it the tortoise fingerprint system. It's not the fingerprint of the foot of the tortoise, of course; it's -
FINLAY: Yes.
HAYWARD: - the fingerprint system of the underside, the plastron.
FINLAY: Have you had a good response to this registry that you're setting up?
HAYWARD: Oh, most certainly, yes. And in fact one or two tortoises that have in fact been lost and stolen have been duly recovered as a result of that. So it's working well.
FINLAY: Is this true? We're talking about tortoises. Is the same true for all of the chelonia group for turtles and terrapins?
HAYWARD: Of the chelonia, most certainly, -
FINLAY: Yeah.
HAYWARD: - but the main problem is the theft of tortoises. It is very, very rare -
FINLAY: Right.
HAYWARD: - that turtles, because you need aquatic facilities for them, for a start, -
FINLAY: Yes.
HAYWARD: - and the little terrapins obviously -
FINLAY: They're common.
HAYWARD: - they're more common, they breed particularly well, and they don't fetch anywhere near the same money. But albeit I say yes, these animals are worth sometimes several hundred pounds each, we don't try to stress that. We don't wish to stress that too greatly because it's not the monetary value; it's the welfare of the animal when it becomes lost or stolen.
FINLAY: So get your fingerprints done, put them on file.
HAYWARD: Absolutely.
FINLAY: Okay, Mr. Hayward. Thank you very much for letting us know.
HAYWARD: Okay.
FINLAY: Bye.
HAYWARD: Bye.
BUDD: John Hayward spoke to us from Portsmouth, England, where he's theft co-ordinator for the British Chelonia Group. And it would take you forever to get there from Reading, though it's not that far - but it would, you see, if you were a tortoise.

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: CBC RADIO (Canada) 22 January 01 As It Happens Transcript: Turtles : Guest: John Hayward [Theft Co-Ordinator For The British Chelonia Group] : Host: M. Finlay / B. Budd : BUDD: The progress has been slow but steady, and now tortoise owners might have a way of actually catching up with their pet thieves. The British Chelonia Group is a charity organization involved in tortoise preservation and conservation, and they've devised a kind of fingerprinting scheme to combat the rise in tortoise theft. The plan involves registering photographs of the plastrons (that's the undersides of the animals' shells). The plastrons are unique in the same way that fingerprints are, and the group is hoping that the photo registry will help folks find their stolen or lost pets. BUDD: John Hayward is the theft co-ordinator for the British Chelonia Group. He's in Portsmouth. : FINLAY: Mr. Hayward, are you really the theft co-ordinator for the British Chelonia Group? : HAYWARD: Well, in fact, we co-ordinate the loss and thefts of all exotic species, and the actual organization that we run is called the National Theft Register for Exotic Animals. And one of our clients in fact is the British Chelonia Group, which is the club or association that specializes in chelonia, which are tortoises, turtles and terrapins. : FINLAY: Well, how big a problem is it, the theft? How often are they stolen, for example? : HAYWARD: Well, it's something that we suffer certainly in the U.K. ever increasingly as time goes on. Year on year, we seem to have more cases reported to us. For instance, last year, the year 2000, we had ten quite substantial cases, large-scale cases of theft of such animals, tortoises, upwards of 19 actual animals stolen from domestic premises, and from importers and breeders, high numbers, several hundred were in fact stolen. HAYWARD: In addition, we dealt with a substantial number again of tortoises that were reported lost, but I'm pleased to say that the lost ones, about two-thirds were in fact found, traced and recovered. : FINLAY: So these are tortoises that wander - the lost ones - they sort of wander out of someone's garden? : HAYWARD: Invariably so, but of course it is quite difficult at times to differentiate as to whether a tortoise has in fact wandered off and strayed, - : FINLAY: Yes. : HAYWARD: - or whether in fact somebody has - : FINLAY: Yes. : HAYWARD: - actually stolen it. : FINLAY: So they're stolen, I take it, because they have a certain value. : HAYWARD: Oh, - : FINLAY: How much are they worth? : HAYWARD: The current price over here for a baby tortoise could be anything between say 200 or 300 pounds, and some species are in fact more valuable than that. So I'm afraid that they are pretty vulnerable to being stolen, of course. : FINLAY: Okay. Now, your plan is that if you get a certain professional photograph of the underside of your tortoise, it's like having his fingerprints on file. : HAYWARD: Yes, it's a relatively new system. You see, the biggest problem we have is generally lack of identification. : FINLAY: Yes. : HAYWARD: Now, if it's a parrot, you can put a ring around a parrot's foot. You can't do that with a tortoise, and albeit a lot of people in fact put some marking or engraving on the shell or what's known as the carapace, - : FINLAY: Yes. : HAYWARD: - the shell of the tortoise, that in fact is a growing, living organ in itself, like an external skeleton, and it shouldn't be disturbed in any way. : FINLAY: And anyway you don't need to put a distinctive marking on it, according to you, because it has its own, right? : HAYWARD: That's exactly the point. The carapace is the shell. If you turn the tortoise upside down and look at the underside of it, which is known as the plastron, - : FINLAY: Yes. : HAYWARD: - the actual pigmentation and pattern of that underside is unique to that particular tortoise. And albeit the tortoise as it grows over many, many years, it never loses that same distinctive pattern and pigmentation. So we therefore advise that all tortoise owners should take a close-up photograph of the underside of the tortoise and keep that on record. And certainly over here in the U.K. we have a central database as part of the British Chelonia Group where people can in fact register, having scanned into the computer system the actual photograph of their tortoise, which means that should it ever become lost or stolen and it's tracked down in somebody else's possession, it could be positively identified. We call it the tortoise fingerprint system. It's not the fingerprint of the foot of the tortoise, of course; it's - : FINLAY: Yes. : HAYWARD: - the fingerprint system of the underside, the plastron. : FINLAY: Have you had a good response to this registry that you're setting up? : HAYWARD: Oh, most certainly, yes. And in fact one or two tortoises that have in fact been lost and stolen have been duly recovered as a result of that. So it's working well. : FINLAY: Is this true? We're talking about tortoises. Is the same true for all of the chelonia group for turtles and terrapins? : HAYWARD: Of the chelonia, most certainly, - : FINLAY: Yeah. : HAYWARD: - but the main problem is the theft of tortoises. It is very, very rare - : FINLAY: Right. : HAYWARD: - that turtles, because you need aquatic facilities for them, for a start, - : FINLAY: Yes. : HAYWARD: - and the little terrapins obviously - : FINLAY: They're common. : HAYWARD: - they're more common, they breed particularly well, and they don't fetch anywhere near the same money. But albeit I say yes, these animals are worth sometimes several hundred pounds each, we don't try to stress that. We don't wish to stress that too greatly because it's not the monetary value; it's the welfare of the animal when it becomes lost or stolen. : FINLAY: So get your fingerprints done, put them on file. : HAYWARD: Absolutely. : FINLAY: Okay, Mr. Hayward. Thank you very much for letting us know. : HAYWARD: Okay. : FINLAY: Bye. : HAYWARD: Bye. : BUDD: John Hayward spoke to us from Portsmouth, England, where he's theft co-ordinator for the British Chelonia Group. And it would take you forever to get there from Reading, though it's not that far - but it would, you see, if you were a tortoise.

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