Re: Yet more spiders and flat tails???!!!

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Posted by Julie on August 25, 2000 at 12:25:55:

In Reply to: Re: Yet more spiders and flat tails???!!! posted by EJ on August 25, 2000 at 09:07:02:

How astute of you. The obvious conclusion about the "accidental" CITES permits is that someone in Madagascar was bribed to sign them. And yes, literally thousands more permits have been issued there, permits for the export of another 4000 tortoises in 2000 and 2001. Finally, you must understand that whether the end consumer does or doesn't "snap up" the exported pyxis torts, that doesn't change the fact that unscrupulous dealers created the market for their export in the first place. That they misjudged the market does not change the plight of the spider tort, nor should it comfort you or anyone who cares about tortoise welfare. The point is that there are enough healthy, lovely captive bred tortoises to reasonably satisfy demand, and there is no reason to look to wild populations. I understand RSR's anger, and I'm surprised you don't. These are wonderful creatures. To know that pyxis tortoises are being separated from their range to meet an uncertain and unpromising future, to know that this threatens their very existence... this must elicit a strong response from someone who respects and values these wonderful creatures. I think most of us are on the same side here. Really. As a matter of fact, we should all get together to see what we can do about stopping the trade in wild tortoises. It will certainly amount to better business for tortoise breeders in America.
: A little clarification here. CITES do not ACCIDENTLY get issued. Also, the pyxis are NOT being snapped up over here. Which is why the market is plummeting. Many collectors will not touch them for what ever reason. They are also not coming in by the thousands.

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Re: Yet more spiders and flat tails???!!! John 08/25/00 (0)

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: How astute of you. The obvious conclusion about the "accidental" CITES permits is that someone in Madagascar was bribed to sign them. And yes, literally thousands more permits have been issued there, permits for the export of another 4000 tortoises in 2000 and 2001. Finally, you must understand that whether the end consumer does or doesn't "snap up" the exported pyxis torts, that doesn't change the fact that unscrupulous dealers created the market for their export in the first place. That they misjudged the market does not change the plight of the spider tort, nor should it comfort you or anyone who cares about tortoise welfare. The point is that there are enough healthy, lovely captive bred tortoises to reasonably satisfy demand, and there is no reason to look to wild populations. I understand RSR's anger, and I'm surprised you don't. These are wonderful creatures. To know that pyxis tortoises are being separated from their range to meet an uncertain and unpromising future, to know that this threatens their very existence... this must elicit a strong response from someone who respects and values these wonderful creatures. I think most of us are on the same side here. Really. As a matter of fact, we should all get together to see what we can do about stopping the trade in wild tortoises. It will certainly amount to better business for tortoise breeders in America. : : A little clarification here. CITES do not ACCIDENTLY get issued. Also, the pyxis are NOT being snapped up over here. Which is why the market is plummeting. Many collectors will not touch them for what ever reason. They are also not coming in by the thousands.

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