Re: Clueless?? Consider natural range!

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Posted by Julie on August 25, 2000 at 10:31:54:

In Reply to: Clueless?? Consider natural range! posted by RSR on August 25, 2000 at 08:56:44:

RSR, Everything you say is intelligent, true, logical and reasonable. I simple reiterate what I said originally and what is evident from EJ's second response: you are wasting your breath until you talk to someone equally intelligent, logical, reasonable and capable of understanding the truth. Alas, if such people predominated, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I hate to hear myself admit defeat, but after years of advocating the rights of all animals, I cannot but accept that the time has not yet come for my ideas (and yours). And when it comes, it will be too late for a great many species...
On a more optimistic note, you must proliferate information about the plight of pyxis torts, their imminent danger of extinction, their proper care. Perhaps this will educate potential consumers. They might then choose to purchase cb's instead, thus rendering the trade in pyxis and other wild caught specimens unprofitable. And, for those consumers who can't think that analytically, you could at least let them know the care needs of these tortoises and perhaps prevent some suffering. In any case, when it comes to me, you're preaching to the choir. Amen.
: No doubt many of the buyers of these tortoises are unaware of their restricted ranges, hence small natural populations to begin with. Kuchling and Bloxam's 1998 original estimate of the ENTIRE range of planicauda to be 15,000 hectares, later, slightly expanded by Behler, Bloxam, Rakovanyo and Randriamahazo (1993). These are not leopard tortoises whose range is about a third of the continent of Africa, whose wild collection can endure (presently) pet trade collection.

: Initially I was very supportive of the Pyxis imports, as ex situ insurance colonies assuming experienced breeders would end up establishing several viable colonies in the US (already present in Europe). This has happened and no doubt from a species survival stadpoint, a very good thing. All the Pyxis (all Madagascarine tortoises) are suffering from habitat destruction and food market trade. But, now, to see these naturally rare tortoises denigrated to this level of used car salesmanship due to the numbers being imported, is, as you aptly put it, unethical. Simply put, its gotten out of control.

: Bottom line, buy a cb redfoot or leopard in lieu of wc Pyxis. In fact, doesn't Mr. Clueless himself, EJ, breed leopards? Here's a plug for you and your leopards EJ.

Follow Ups:

population dynamics RSR 08/25/00 (9)
- Re: population dynamics Logic in Action 08/25/00 (8)
  - Re: The last good idea you had, DIED OF LONELINESS..hahaha,np Nipplehead in action 08/26/00 (0)
  - Re: population dynamics Bonehead in Action 08/26/00 (0)
  - What do you consider the other side of the coin? n/p EJ 08/26/00 (3)
    - The other side of the coin...LONG.. Logic In Action 08/26/00 (2)
      - Re: The other side of the coin...LONG.. Giovanni 08/27/00 (0)
      - Excellent post. EJ 08/27/00 (0)
  - Re: thank you steve 08/26/00 (1)
    - Ya, what is the other side of the coin Logic? RSR 08/26/00 (0)
Re: Clueless?? Consider natural range! steve 08/25/00 (9)
- Re: Clueless?? Consider natural range! Julie 08/25/00 (8)
  - Re: Clueless?? Consider natural range! steve 08/25/00 (7)
    - Re: Clueless?? You are at this stage John 08/25/00 (6)
      - Re: Clueless?? You are at this stage steve 08/26/00 (5)
        
        Re:BRAVO!! Eric T. 08/26/00 (4)
        
        Re:BRAVO!! Cary 08/26/00 (3)
        
        Re:BRAVO!! steve 08/26/00 (2)
        
        Re:BRAVO!! Cary 08/26/00 (1)
        
        Re:BRAVO!! testing 08/27/00 (0)

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: RSR, Everything you say is intelligent, true, logical and reasonable. I simple reiterate what I said originally and what is evident from EJ's second response: you are wasting your breath until you talk to someone equally intelligent, logical, reasonable and capable of understanding the truth. Alas, if such people predominated, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I hate to hear myself admit defeat, but after years of advocating the rights of all animals, I cannot but accept that the time has not yet come for my ideas (and yours). And when it comes, it will be too late for a great many species... : On a more optimistic note, you must proliferate information about the plight of pyxis torts, their imminent danger of extinction, their proper care. Perhaps this will educate potential consumers. They might then choose to purchase cb's instead, thus rendering the trade in pyxis and other wild caught specimens unprofitable. And, for those consumers who can't think that analytically, you could at least let them know the care needs of these tortoises and perhaps prevent some suffering. In any case, when it comes to me, you're preaching to the choir. Amen. : : No doubt many of the buyers of these tortoises are unaware of their restricted ranges, hence small natural populations to begin with. Kuchling and Bloxam's 1998 original estimate of the ENTIRE range of planicauda to be 15,000 hectares, later, slightly expanded by Behler, Bloxam, Rakovanyo and Randriamahazo (1993). These are not leopard tortoises whose range is about a third of the continent of Africa, whose wild collection can endure (presently) pet trade collection. : : Initially I was very supportive of the Pyxis imports, as ex situ insurance colonies assuming experienced breeders would end up establishing several viable colonies in the US (already present in Europe). This has happened and no doubt from a species survival stadpoint, a very good thing. All the Pyxis (all Madagascarine tortoises) are suffering from habitat destruction and food market trade. But, now, to see these naturally rare tortoises denigrated to this level of used car salesmanship due to the numbers being imported, is, as you aptly put it, unethical. Simply put, its gotten out of control. : : Bottom line, buy a cb redfoot or leopard in lieu of wc Pyxis. In fact, doesn't Mr. Clueless himself, EJ, breed leopards? Here's a plug for you and your leopards EJ.

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