Re: Substrate: alfalfa problems... topsoil?

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Posted by Kathy on August 18, 2000 at 23:28:17:

In Reply to: Re: Substrate: alfalfa problems... topsoil? posted by Jen B on August 18, 2000 at 14:51:18:

Oyster shell? I'll have to recheck that site.
A mix of 50-50 clean topsoil (no styrofoam balls or fertilizers added) and clean play sand will work good (like you said). You can feed on a paper plate to reduce the ingestion of substrate. Your really, really best bet may be ordering some orchard grass. It's a great substrate, plus it's meant for eating. Bonus!
Yes, after I suggested the book to you I reread and it mentions towel substrate for hatchlings, but yours isn't a hatchling, right? Here's the link for Oxbow. Their prices are really fair and their products are great. I use their orchard grass, as well as their guinea pig food and bird seed.
Kathy
Arizona

: Thanks for your advice, Kathy. That 20-page download booklet is very informative. But the only "substrate" that she suggests is a towel, which she says is easy for the tort to walk on. The problem I can see with a towel is that the tort wouldn't be able to dig.

: So, I thought I would stick to alfalfa pellets for now and just monitor them closely for wet spots. But then I read this by Melissa Kaplan in an article about substrates:

: "They [alfalfa pellets] are unsuitable for chelonians, who may develop gait irregularities and foot deformities from trying to keep their footing on the highly mobile pellets"
: http://www.sonic.net/melissk/substrates2.html

: That's the only place I've heard anything like that! Maybe I should go the topsoil/playsand route (then I would worry about the tort ingesting sand)... Or the Hatchling Haven site suggests oyster shell... I find the vast array of opinions regarding substrates quite remarkable.

: : Jen,
: : The alfalfa pellets aren't supposed to be that great because when they get wet they tend to grow mold. Also, alfalfa isn't a food that's recommended as an *always* food (because it's a little high in protien) and your new tort may chow down on it. I don't know that the mulch would be good because it would retain moisture and hermanns are native to hot, dry environments. I'm sure others who house indoors will pipe in with suggestions. But here's a great link to download a 20-page book by Linda King on rearing mediterranean torts.
: : Good luck with your new tort,
: : Kathy

: : : After a fair amount of research, I am still confused about the best substrate to use for my soon-to-arrive hermann's tortoise. I have purchased both alfalfa pellets and cypress mulch. The mulch is a little easier to obtain in bulk, and a little cheaper. But it has thin shreds that I'm afraid the tort might ingest, as well as sharp chips that I'm afraid could wound it. This is my first tort, so I'm feeling a little protective (or paranoid--I even start worrying that there may be tiny pests in it). Am I being overly careful? Is cypress mulch fine? Or should I stick with alfalfa pellets? Or is there another safe and inexpensive substrate that I should consider?

Oxbow

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Thanks Kathy Jen B 08/22/00 (0)

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: Oyster shell? I'll have to recheck that site. : A mix of 50-50 clean topsoil (no styrofoam balls or fertilizers added) and clean play sand will work good (like you said). You can feed on a paper plate to reduce the ingestion of substrate. Your really, really best bet may be ordering some orchard grass. It's a great substrate, plus it's meant for eating. Bonus! : Yes, after I suggested the book to you I reread and it mentions towel substrate for hatchlings, but yours isn't a hatchling, right? Here's the link for Oxbow. Their prices are really fair and their products are great. I use their orchard grass, as well as their guinea pig food and bird seed. : Kathy : Arizona : : Thanks for your advice, Kathy. That 20-page download booklet is very informative. But the only "substrate" that she suggests is a towel, which she says is easy for the tort to walk on. The problem I can see with a towel is that the tort wouldn't be able to dig. : : So, I thought I would stick to alfalfa pellets for now and just monitor them closely for wet spots. But then I read this by Melissa Kaplan in an article about substrates: : : "They [alfalfa pellets] are unsuitable for chelonians, who may develop gait irregularities and foot deformities from trying to keep their footing on the highly mobile pellets" : : http://www.sonic.net/melissk/substrates2.html : : That's the only place I've heard anything like that! Maybe I should go the topsoil/playsand route (then I would worry about the tort ingesting sand)... Or the Hatchling Haven site suggests oyster shell... I find the vast array of opinions regarding substrates quite remarkable. : : : : Jen, : : : The alfalfa pellets aren't supposed to be that great because when they get wet they tend to grow mold. Also, alfalfa isn't a food that's recommended as an *always* food (because it's a little high in protien) and your new tort may chow down on it. I don't know that the mulch would be good because it would retain moisture and hermanns are native to hot, dry environments. I'm sure others who house indoors will pipe in with suggestions. But here's a great link to download a 20-page book by Linda King on rearing mediterranean torts. : : : Good luck with your new tort, : : : Kathy : : : : After a fair amount of research, I am still confused about the best substrate to use for my soon-to-arrive hermann's tortoise. I have purchased both alfalfa pellets and cypress mulch. The mulch is a little easier to obtain in bulk, and a little cheaper. But it has thin shreds that I'm afraid the tort might ingest, as well as sharp chips that I'm afraid could wound it. This is my first tort, so I'm feeling a little protective (or paranoid--I even start worrying that there may be tiny pests in it). Am I being overly careful? Is cypress mulch fine? Or should I stick with alfalfa pellets? Or is there another safe and inexpensive substrate that I should consider?

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