kingsnake.com - reptile and amphibian classifieds, breeders, forums, photos, videos and more

return to main index

  mobile - desktop
follow us on facebook follow us on twitter follow us on YouTube link to us on LinkedIn
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research  
Click here for LLL Reptile & Supply
This Space Available
3 months for $50.00
Locate a business by name: click to list your business
search the classifieds. buy an account
events by zip code list an event
Search the forums             Search in:
News & Events: Herp Photo of the Day: False Coral Snake . . . . . . . . . .  Herp Photo of the Day: Bearded Dragon . . . . . . . . . .  Greater Cincinnati Herp Society Meeting - Apr 02, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Calusa Herp Society Meeting - Apr 04, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Southwestern Herp Society Meeting - Apr 06, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Hamburg Reptile Show - Apr. 13, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  St. Louis Herpetological Society - Apr 14, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  San Diego Herp Society Meeting - Apr 16, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Suncoast Herp Society Meeting - Apr 20, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  DFW Herp Society Meeting - Apr 20, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Colorado Herp Society Meeting - Apr 20, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Chicago Herpetological Society Meeting - Apr 21, 2024 . . . . . . . . . . 

Re: Sulcata Tortoise Health and Breeding


[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Tortoise Forum ] [ FAQ ]

Posted by KATHY on August 03, 2000 at 21:43:18:

In Reply to: Re: Sulcata Tortoise Health and Breeding posted by EJ on August 03, 2000 at 20:02:33:

: Its responses like this that are scary. This implys that the cause of pyramiding is known

BZZZZZ! Wrong! I said a diet high in protein is *usually* the cause.

It is a combination of factors and not just one.

I think it CAN be a combination of diet, environment, genetics; but nothing's proven yet.
Right?


: >Pyramiding is usually attributed to a diet too high in protein.

See 1st comment. The word is 'usually.'


: >Of course, when you think of protein rich food, you think of dog food, cat food, meats, etc., and say you would never feed that to your tort!

: Unless of course you are talking of redfoots and hingebacks which are omnivours.

We're on the subject of sulcatas here.

: >But many plants have a high protein content and are a regular part of many torts' diets. Foods like brussel sprouts, cauliflower, peas, beans.

: Nothing wrong with this if there is sufficient fiber and/or variety to balance this.

Agreed. Although I would say moderation is very important if you choose to feed these foods.

: >Anyway, excessive amounts of protein in the diet causes very rapid growth (pyramiding).

: NO, NO, NO!!!! There is no evidence to supprot this. For every example of this statement you give me I can give you one to contridict it.

I will go to my grave believing it to be true, so there is no point on going further on that point.

: >Pyramiding is the *indicator* of too fast growth and its' side effects.

: Nope, wrong again.(jeez, I'm starting to sound like someone we all know and love.)

Ditto my above comment.

: >Rapid growth causes dark coloration of your tort's carapace due to excessively thick layers of keratin.

: No. If you look at the coloration of a tortoises shell you will see the pigment is in the upper layers. (Why? I don't know.) It has not had time to be worn away. I have noticed this in 3 species that I keep including the sulcata.

That's not what I see in mine.

: >(The dark color absorbs more heat than the lighter carapace, so your tort heats up more than he would normally.)
: You have to ask yourself, Why did mother nature set up this situation? (at least I do)

Mother Nature didn't do it! We did it! Again, we're talking sulcatas here. We do it by growing the tort faster than it would grow in the wild-->leading to thick keratin layers-->darker coloration-->more light (heat) absorption.
Do you think a sulcata in its natural environment, sub-Sahara Africa, needs to absorb *more* heat?

: >Also, the growth affects the bones, which become porous and weak in structure.

: Depending on diet and available calcium and temperature and hydration. (you get the point)

Yes. Can be improper diet, environment, genetics.
Agreed.
:
: >I would say the main health concerns of a high protein diet (and rapid growth) are liver disorders, kidney problems and the way it affects the metabolizing of calcium.

: All of these a very different subjects.
:
: : I asked if I could somehow *stop* the effects of the pyramiding and was told to feed the recommended sulcata diet (natural grazing foods, low protein veggies, little bit of fruit), keep the tort hydrated, and offer lots of sunshine. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

: No reason to. If the diet is balanced an varied it/they will continue to grow 'normally' if again you consider temperature and hydration along with the rest.

My concern was the damage already done (before I got the torts). I am hoping to reduce the risks of kidney problems, etc. through recommended diet and environment.

:
: Kathy, sorry for using your post to make a point. You provided all the right questions.
: Ed

EJ,
No apologies. This is a place for agreeing to disagree. This information is what I've learned from many different books and discussions and I am certainly not an expert, just someone who wants to learn more. I agree with EJ that different factors can certainly be involved to cause pyramiding. My personal belief is that a diet high in protein would be the most prevelant factor. Thank goodness we're a society that allows each their own opinion!
Kathy
Arizona



Follow Ups:



Post a Followup

Name:
E-Mail:

Subject:

Comments:

Optional Link URL:
Link Title:
Optional Image URL:


[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Tortoise Forum ] [ FAQ ]