Re: pyramiding, my observations on wild collected.........

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Posted by m chambers on July 31, 2000 at 10:57:07:

In Reply to: pyramiding posted by EJ on July 28, 2000 at 11:15:01:

whether genetic or nutritional, here is my observations on imported tortoises concerning pyramiding. 1990-1993 I was making quarterly trips to south Florida to some of the mass wholesellers to buy reptiles to resale and add or start breeding stock. I was mostley interested in tortoises at this time but they wasn't my main purchases. I was able to attend several on-the-spot, just-got-in freshly import arrivals at several wholesellers and this is what I observed. With documemtation of country of origin I witnessed a number of tortoises having pyramiding shells right next to the same specie with out the pyramiding. One import arrival had 120 imported tortoises, all from Africa with 3 diff. species and 20-30 of these had pyramid shells to what I would say to be in excess of a pyramiding situation because of the species they were. All tortoises (going by the documentation) were collected in a small precise area. They didn't stay with the chain of collector-importer for a very long time before they were shipped out. So it appeared the conditions were the same as far as food availible intake and wheather conditions at this given area of collecting. Any veiws or comments on this ? (and yes I know about the bogus info. that could be with any documentation on collected animal species.)

Mike Chambers

: Andy hit on this down the list. Genetic pyramiding and nutritional pyramiding are two different things. (or are they?) Pyramiding has been associated with nutritional disorders but there are tortoises that have perfectly smooth or 'normal' shells with low bone density or are nutritionaly deficient. Pyramiding has been associated with rapid growth but there is a perfect example of pyramiding associated with slow growth in Andys book 'Encyclopedia...' on page 172. (just one of many observed examples). Then there is the pyramiding many call genetic where there is normal bone density but the scutes are raised. There has to be a common factor or factors outside of high protein based on these observations.

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Re: pyramiding, my observations on wild collected......... EJ 07/31/00 (0)

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: whether genetic or nutritional, here is my observations on imported tortoises concerning pyramiding. 1990-1993 I was making quarterly trips to south Florida to some of the mass wholesellers to buy reptiles to resale and add or start breeding stock. I was mostley interested in tortoises at this time but they wasn't my main purchases. I was able to attend several on-the-spot, just-got-in freshly import arrivals at several wholesellers and this is what I observed. With documemtation of country of origin I witnessed a number of tortoises having pyramiding shells right next to the same specie with out the pyramiding. One import arrival had 120 imported tortoises, all from Africa with 3 diff. species and 20-30 of these had pyramid shells to what I would say to be in excess of a pyramiding situation because of the species they were. All tortoises (going by the documentation) were collected in a small precise area. They didn't stay with the chain of collector-importer for a very long time before they were shipped out. So it appeared the conditions were the same as far as food availible intake and wheather conditions at this given area of collecting. Any veiws or comments on this ? (and yes I know about the bogus info. that could be with any documentation on collected animal species.) : Mike Chambers : : Andy hit on this down the list. Genetic pyramiding and nutritional pyramiding are two different things. (or are they?) Pyramiding has been associated with nutritional disorders but there are tortoises that have perfectly smooth or 'normal' shells with low bone density or are nutritionaly deficient. Pyramiding has been associated with rapid growth but there is a perfect example of pyramiding associated with slow growth in Andys book 'Encyclopedia...' on page 172. (just one of many observed examples). Then there is the pyramiding many call genetic where there is normal bone density but the scutes are raised. There has to be a common factor or factors outside of high protein based on these observations.

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