The dubious benefits of CITES listings

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Posted by Paul V on July 05, 2000 at 20:24:50:

In Reply to: Re: Pet shop or stew pot? Is cities helping? posted by Terry on July 05, 2000 at 16:46:34:

Allowing the export of turtles makes only a marginal difference at best in the number that end up in the food markets. I have spoken to several people, some private keepers, some zoo employees, some biologists. It seems to be a split decision, but the majority of zoo employees and biologists seem to think it will help.
I, on the other hand, have serious doubts. Several species (eg, G. hamiltoni, K. tecta, G. platynota, etc.) that are listed as CITES I continue to show up in the food markets. CITES II protection also seems to provide no reprieve, as these continue to show up as well (eg, Indotestudo sp., Manouria sp., etc.). If past performance is any kind of indicator, the recent addition of all Cuora sp. to CITES II will not do anything to significantly benefit their survival in the wild. The people in-country generally ignore the listings, and the collectors in the field most likely are not even aware that the laws exist. They simply know that certain turtles will fetch them enough money to feed their families for quite a long time.
The whole problem with CITES in general is that it is an international entity. The individual countries should take enough incentive to protect the animals within thier own borders. For example, if you can go to a country and kill and eat as many of a certain species as you please, what the hell is the point of not allowing it to be exported, even if it will only become someone's pet? Obviously the ideal scenario would involve the animal going into some sort of breeding program, either private or institutional, but at least it would not be slaughtered.
All in all, it seems that CITES is serving the exact opposite purpose that it was intended to serve in many cases (I said MANY, not ALL). By the time one adds up the time and effort required to apply for the necessary permits, not to mention the greasing of palms that MUST be happen to get anything done in many underdeveloped countries, it is beyond the financial scope of many well-funded institutions, let alone most private individuals.
And one last note, although it will likely drive the prices up and the availability down, the addition of Cuora to CITES II will NOT make it impossible to get them. Contrary to what many wholesalers and importers would like consumers to believe, China does issue permits for CITES II fauna. Furthermore, the recent (and fortunate) attention given to the Asian turtle crisis has persuaded many keepers to focus more efforts on breeding the species involved, particularly Cuora. While it may not happen overnight, this genus will become more and more available as captive bred.

Just my thoughts,
Paul V.

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Re: The dubious benefits of CITES listings Olaf Pronk / Centre soafiavy 07/05/00 (0)

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: Allowing the export of turtles makes only a marginal difference at best in the number that end up in the food markets. I have spoken to several people, some private keepers, some zoo employees, some biologists. It seems to be a split decision, but the majority of zoo employees and biologists seem to think it will help. : I, on the other hand, have serious doubts. Several species (eg, G. hamiltoni, K. tecta, G. platynota, etc.) that are listed as CITES I continue to show up in the food markets. CITES II protection also seems to provide no reprieve, as these continue to show up as well (eg, Indotestudo sp., Manouria sp., etc.). If past performance is any kind of indicator, the recent addition of all Cuora sp. to CITES II will not do anything to significantly benefit their survival in the wild. The people in-country generally ignore the listings, and the collectors in the field most likely are not even aware that the laws exist. They simply know that certain turtles will fetch them enough money to feed their families for quite a long time. : The whole problem with CITES in general is that it is an international entity. The individual countries should take enough incentive to protect the animals within thier own borders. For example, if you can go to a country and kill and eat as many of a certain species as you please, what the hell is the point of not allowing it to be exported, even if it will only become someone's pet? Obviously the ideal scenario would involve the animal going into some sort of breeding program, either private or institutional, but at least it would not be slaughtered. : All in all, it seems that CITES is serving the exact opposite purpose that it was intended to serve in many cases (I said MANY, not ALL). By the time one adds up the time and effort required to apply for the necessary permits, not to mention the greasing of palms that MUST be happen to get anything done in many underdeveloped countries, it is beyond the financial scope of many well-funded institutions, let alone most private individuals. : And one last note, although it will likely drive the prices up and the availability down, the addition of Cuora to CITES II will NOT make it impossible to get them. Contrary to what many wholesalers and importers would like consumers to believe, China does issue permits for CITES II fauna. Furthermore, the recent (and fortunate) attention given to the Asian turtle crisis has persuaded many keepers to focus more efforts on breeding the species involved, particularly Cuora. While it may not happen overnight, this genus will become more and more available as captive bred. : Just my thoughts, : Paul V.

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