Re: You're missing the POINT

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Posted by danya on March 13, 2002 at 16:23:28:

In Reply to: You're missing the POINT posted by Merri on March 13, 2002 at 09:37:32:

if you weren't quite so dense, you would have realized i never said they should only eat what they would naturally eat. i said you should research what that would be, and then research what you are capable of providing, and then determine what the closest alternatives would be as far as nutritional value. I never said you should fly out to africa to get him food. I never said they should ONLY eat what they oculd in the wild. And your theory on guinea pigs only proves my point more. Those pellets are made so that the nutritional value is very close to the wild. There is no reason to experiment any further with foods we already realize hurt an animal. It's been done, those animals failed due to out poor knowledge in the past. Now that we have a good idea about whats good and whats bad, why should we go back and do it again. You know the definition of crazy is doing one thing over and over expecting different results. I'm not going to go on about exaxtly which foods are bad and why. There are TONS of messages on this forum explaining that already.

: What do sulcatas really eat in the wild? Dandelion greens, doubtfully they do not grow in Africa
: Lettuce, once again does not grow in Africa
: Opuntia (which is considered very good for them), there is no cactus out side of the western hemisphere
: Store bought greens in general, I'm sure sulcatas do not walk into their local safeway and pick up a bunch of ________ (fill in the blank)
: American grasses (inc. bermuda, St. Augustine, rye, Kentucky bluegrass, crab grass, et cetera), do not grow in Africa, and also could not survive in the sulcata�s native climate, they all need way too much water
: Alfalfa, timothy, and miscellaneous hays, these are probably close to the dried vegetation they eat, but are not nutritionally sound
: Now could you please explain to me why the above foods are in any way better than chards, beet greens, kale, spinach et cetera. I have yet to see any proof that the above mentioned foods are in any way bad for tortoises. Almost all the theories surrounding tortoise diet are based on what people fed them when they first came into the country. Certain greens were arbitrarily called "bad", but, as of yet, I have never seen any scientific evidence that any leafy green vegetable is a "good" or "bad" food item.
: As for your little experiment. In the wild (the Andes) guinea pigs eat a diet very similar to tortoises. They do not eat guinea pig pellets, or anything close to any of the foods that are commercially available. If you feed a guinea pig anything other than greens, hay, and some fresh vegetables you are drastically experimenting with its diet. Also, I see no problem with experimenting with which greens are healthiest for a guinea pig. Likewise, I see no problem with seeing what greens are the healthiest for tortoises.
: Thanks, Merri

Follow Ups:

Re: You're missing the POINT Justin 03/14/02 (5)
- Re: You're missing the POINT danya 03/14/02 (4)
  - Re: You're missing the POINT Justin 03/14/02 (3)
    - Re: You're missing the POINT danya 03/14/02 (2)
      - Danya nathan 03/15/02 (1)
        
        (not unlike this person) n/p EJ 03/15/02 (0)

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: if you weren't quite so dense, you would have realized i never said they should only eat what they would naturally eat. i said you should research what that would be, and then research what you are capable of providing, and then determine what the closest alternatives would be as far as nutritional value. I never said you should fly out to africa to get him food. I never said they should ONLY eat what they oculd in the wild. And your theory on guinea pigs only proves my point more. Those pellets are made so that the nutritional value is very close to the wild. There is no reason to experiment any further with foods we already realize hurt an animal. It's been done, those animals failed due to out poor knowledge in the past. Now that we have a good idea about whats good and whats bad, why should we go back and do it again. You know the definition of crazy is doing one thing over and over expecting different results. I'm not going to go on about exaxtly which foods are bad and why. There are TONS of messages on this forum explaining that already. : : What do sulcatas really eat in the wild? Dandelion greens, doubtfully they do not grow in Africa : : Lettuce, once again does not grow in Africa : : Opuntia (which is considered very good for them), there is no cactus out side of the western hemisphere : : Store bought greens in general, I'm sure sulcatas do not walk into their local safeway and pick up a bunch of ________ (fill in the blank) : : American grasses (inc. bermuda, St. Augustine, rye, Kentucky bluegrass, crab grass, et cetera), do not grow in Africa, and also could not survive in the sulcata�s native climate, they all need way too much water : : Alfalfa, timothy, and miscellaneous hays, these are probably close to the dried vegetation they eat, but are not nutritionally sound : : Now could you please explain to me why the above foods are in any way better than chards, beet greens, kale, spinach et cetera. I have yet to see any proof that the above mentioned foods are in any way bad for tortoises. Almost all the theories surrounding tortoise diet are based on what people fed them when they first came into the country. Certain greens were arbitrarily called "bad", but, as of yet, I have never seen any scientific evidence that any leafy green vegetable is a "good" or "bad" food item. : : As for your little experiment. In the wild (the Andes) guinea pigs eat a diet very similar to tortoises. They do not eat guinea pig pellets, or anything close to any of the foods that are commercially available. If you feed a guinea pig anything other than greens, hay, and some fresh vegetables you are drastically experimenting with its diet. Also, I see no problem with experimenting with which greens are healthiest for a guinea pig. Likewise, I see no problem with seeing what greens are the healthiest for tortoises. : : Thanks, Merri

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