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Posted by Paul V on July 03, 2000 at 08:08:02:

In Reply to: Re: Healthy debates? posted by Logic in Action on July 03, 2000 at 01:06:37:

: How to encourage health debates?

: 1. Always start by ignoring the obvious. Example, Baytril.

: Injectable Baytril was made to be injected. It was tested by a lab spending millions of dollars and it's level of absorbtion, dosage and proper tissue concentration were all calculated by being tested on live animals. A lethal dose rate has been calculated. Injectable Baytril contains alcohol. Oral baytril is available. To give a tortoise injectable baytril orally to fight a bacterial infection is the equavilent of a human eating rusted nails as an iron supplement. Yes, it might work. Yes, it has been done. No, it's not how they were intended to be used.

Right, and as mentioned below all dosages and treatments recommended by the manufacturer are based on trials on mammals, not chelonians or even reptiles. In other words, Baytril in any form used for chelonians is not its intended use, but it does work.
Besides, rusty nails taste yucky.

: 2. Always slam noted authorities. Example;

: Highfield is rough and to the point. He has little time for the forum and shouldn't have to spend it making corrections to peoples wives tales
: that could ultimately end up killing an animal. He offers his experienced opinion and nothing more or less. Accept it as that.

The opinion of any noted authority is welcomed and encouraged here, just as is the opinion of anybody else. Everyone's time is precious, and we are ALL busy. Any contribution should be thought of as a person taking their own precious time to contribute to the discussion, just so long as the tone remains civilized. There are more tactful ways rebut people.

: 3. Always burn, at the stake, anyone who even suggests they have a profit motive. Example;

: Olaf breeds more animals than the avearge person will even see in any zoo. He makes a profit which allows him to collect, observe and breed other animals. He lives on an island where he is able to observe Tortoises in their natural environment and therefore has unique knowledge. Yet he is condemned as a greedy money monger.

: Has anyone else in this forum ever sold a tortoise and made some money? Does Olaf sell his own pasture grass or his own vitamin or calcium mix? Is profit allow on some things but not on others?

Yup, plenty of times. I use the money to feed my habit - my collection. People have to pay the bills and put food on the table, and pay for their turtle habit. Nothing wrong with that.

: Can a persons knowledge and experience simply be accepted and used, or rejected and ignored without bringing in a personal condemnation of the motive behind such information?

: A healthy debate is informative and constructive.

: And yes, I'm sorry, my words are not healthy or very constructive. My apologies.

You forgot one:

4. Always maintain an overly sarcastic tone. This is the most effective way to get your point across.

Example: Case in point.

Thanks for your time,
Paul V.

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: : How to encourage health debates? : : 1. Always start by ignoring the obvious. Example, Baytril. : : Injectable Baytril was made to be injected. It was tested by a lab spending millions of dollars and it's level of absorbtion, dosage and proper tissue concentration were all calculated by being tested on live animals. A lethal dose rate has been calculated. Injectable Baytril contains alcohol. Oral baytril is available. To give a tortoise injectable baytril orally to fight a bacterial infection is the equavilent of a human eating rusted nails as an iron supplement. Yes, it might work. Yes, it has been done. No, it's not how they were intended to be used. : Right, and as mentioned below all dosages and treatments recommended by the manufacturer are based on trials on mammals, not chelonians or even reptiles. In other words, Baytril in any form used for chelonians is not its intended use, but it does work. : Besides, rusty nails taste yucky. : : 2. Always slam noted authorities. Example; : : Highfield is rough and to the point. He has little time for the forum and shouldn't have to spend it making corrections to peoples wives tales : : that could ultimately end up killing an animal. He offers his experienced opinion and nothing more or less. Accept it as that. : The opinion of any noted authority is welcomed and encouraged here, just as is the opinion of anybody else. Everyone's time is precious, and we are ALL busy. Any contribution should be thought of as a person taking their own precious time to contribute to the discussion, just so long as the tone remains civilized. There are more tactful ways rebut people. : : 3. Always burn, at the stake, anyone who even suggests they have a profit motive. Example; : : Olaf breeds more animals than the avearge person will even see in any zoo. He makes a profit which allows him to collect, observe and breed other animals. He lives on an island where he is able to observe Tortoises in their natural environment and therefore has unique knowledge. Yet he is condemned as a greedy money monger. : : Has anyone else in this forum ever sold a tortoise and made some money? Does Olaf sell his own pasture grass or his own vitamin or calcium mix? Is profit allow on some things but not on others? : Yup, plenty of times. I use the money to feed my habit - my collection. People have to pay the bills and put food on the table, and pay for their turtle habit. Nothing wrong with that. : : Can a persons knowledge and experience simply be accepted and used, or rejected and ignored without bringing in a personal condemnation of the motive behind such information? : : A healthy debate is informative and constructive. : : And yes, I'm sorry, my words are not healthy or very constructive. My apologies. : You forgot one: : 4. Always maintain an overly sarcastic tone. This is the most effective way to get your point across. : Example: Case in point. : : Thanks for your time, : Paul V.

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