Re: Very long, simple points

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Posted by A. C. Highfield on July 01, 2000 at 16:34:45:

In Reply to: Very long, simple points posted by Tom on July 01, 2000 at 14:21:05:

: First I gotta say this debate is great. Not in that we aren't agreeing
: but that we are able to express our differences of opinion openly.
: Also I am making a statement so no one misunderstands me.
: EXCESSIVE PROTEIN IS BAD! I also agree that with protein you have
: an excessive build up of fatty acids that are internally damaging.
: BUT protein isn't the only thing that causes pyramiding and no one
: is 100% sure what does.

Yes, we are. We can prevent it at will. We can cause it at will. We can vary the severity at will
We can do this under carefully controlled conditions - with 100% repeatability. The biology is very thoroughly understood.
There is no mystery. Suggesting that there is is tantamount to insisting that we do not know "for sure" that the earth is round and that it orbits the sun...

There are many things I am not 100% sure about in science, but what causes this type of deformity is not one of them.

: The one feed every day. And it will be more pyramided than its counter part.
: * excessive animal protein adjusts the animals metabolism promoting
: abnormal growth..>>

Any protein. All protein. Vegetable protein too, although these are utilized less efficiently. The fact is that a tortoise that eats more is consuming more protein....

: ** Also animal protein is common is some tortoise diets, anyone reading
: these posts need to understand that so like the red and yellow foots
: will normally consume carrion in the wild as will box turtles. We're
: not clearifing very well for any newbies.

There are extremely substantial dietary and biochemical differences between humid-habitat semi-carnivorous/omivorous species and arid habitat herbivores.

Tortoise Trust

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Question for Andy Tom 07/01/00 (4)
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    - Re: Not to be rude but also.... Brent 07/02/00 (0)

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: : First I gotta say this debate is great. Not in that we aren't agreeing : : but that we are able to express our differences of opinion openly. : : Also I am making a statement so no one misunderstands me. : : EXCESSIVE PROTEIN IS BAD! I also agree that with protein you have : : an excessive build up of fatty acids that are internally damaging. : : BUT protein isn't the only thing that causes pyramiding and no one : : is 100% sure what does. : Yes, we are. We can prevent it at will. We can cause it at will. We can vary the severity at will : We can do this under carefully controlled conditions - with 100% repeatability. The biology is very thoroughly understood. : There is no mystery. Suggesting that there is is tantamount to insisting that we do not know "for sure" that the earth is round and that it orbits the sun... : There are many things I am not 100% sure about in science, but what causes this type of deformity is not one of them. : : : The one feed every day. And it will be more pyramided than its counter part. : : * excessive animal protein adjusts the animals metabolism promoting : : abnormal growth..>> : Any protein. All protein. Vegetable protein too, although these are utilized less efficiently. The fact is that a tortoise that eats more is consuming more protein.... : : ** Also animal protein is common is some tortoise diets, anyone reading : : these posts need to understand that so like the red and yellow foots : : will normally consume carrion in the wild as will box turtles. We're : : not clearifing very well for any newbies. : There are extremely substantial dietary and biochemical differences between humid-habitat semi-carnivorous/omivorous species and arid habitat herbivores.

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