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Re: Why is


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Posted by EJ on June 30, 2000 at 23:46:12:

In Reply to: Re: Why is posted by A. C. Highfield on June 30, 2000 at 16:15:02:

This kind of response is totally worthless. It eludes to an explaination without giving one. It is the equivelent of saying that's BS and walking away.
How about just a little informative input without being so condescending.
If this topic is so well understood why do many vets that discusse this topic in publication begin with the disclaimer that it is not very well understood in chelonians but there are several factors that are suspect. By opening this up to DISCUSSION it might become clearer how those factors interact and those that wish to participate might actually learn something. Everytime I have opened up this discussion I have come away learning something. Usually it was from a person who has been keeping turtles/tortoises for 5 years or less because the experts say the answer is obvious and leave it at that. Not very stimulating in a DISCUSSION.

: : : : If pyramiding is associated with rapid growth or excessive protein, how do you explain pyramiding in tortoises fed low nutrition diets (iceberg lettuce and such) and are stunted in growth?

: : : Very easily.

: : And not excessive protein? hmmm. It's kind of neat to have someone agree with me.
: : This is what I've been trying to say along with the exception that environmental factors with, of course, other nutritional components playing a major role in addition to the stuff you mention.

: 1) The causes of "pyramiding" are so well understood, are so easy to demonstrate under repeatable and controlled conditions, and are so straightforward in biology that the only thing that baffles me is why some people insist on attempting to make a big mystery of it.....
: 2) Excessive protein? Yes. Excessive in the sense that it causes growth that outstrips available calcium.

: Excesive protein intakes per se *also* cause kidney damage and have other serious life-threatening consequences in the long-run.

: Really, can those people who wish to debate this toic at least acquire some solid grounding in very basic biology and nutritional science before throwing misinterpretations and wacky ideas around? Please?

: Andy Highfield




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