Re: Pyramiding discussion continued

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Posted by A. C. Highfield on May 22, 2000 at 05:33:57:

In Reply to: Re: Pyramiding discussion continued posted by Richard Fife on May 22, 2000 at 00:04:24:

: It is possible to accelerate a tortoise�s growth without causing any harm (even long term). I am very concerned for the health of all the tortoises I raise. I think that most other breeders do also.

: I am glad to hear that you would pay what ever it took to get a legal 4-inch captive hatched and raised tortoise. Unfortunately from my experiance most people won�t. They would much rather buy an illegal hatchling or a wild caught animal. As people become more educated this will change.

: Incidentally for years people were under the impression that accelerating a snake�s growth would jeopardize or shorten the life of the snake. This has proven to be untrue. There are longevity records for captive hatched snakes that were raised to breeding size in a fraction of what it would take in nature. I think this will be true for tortoises also. Remember I am only talking about raising tortoises to 4-inches. It takes a little over a year for me to raise a leopard tortoise to 4-inches, so thats not real fast. Again I am trying to bring out the idea that environmental conditions are very important. I believe they play a major role in the development of a tortoise�s shell. Thank you for your input.

Richard,

Firstly. Big difference between snakes and grazing herbivores. Totally diffent digestive tract chemistry and water balance needs.

Second, I have autopsied many, many tortoises over the years and I consistently find damaged liver/kidneys in animals subjected to high growth rates. Smoothness of shell is very far from the only criteria to be considered. Come back in 25, 50 and 75 years and tell me that there are no long term health problems! Bottom line is that you cannot know.

FWIW, there is a draft of some of my latest work in this field at the link below. Basically addressing environment and the nutrition/environment interface. It has never been our position that high protein is the *only* factor in how well (or badly) a tortoise grows - merely that it is undoubtedly the major factor, by a mile. Climate, temperature and activity cycles do play a role - but indirectly because they influence digestive eficiency, transit times, etc.

Regards,

Andy

Dietary Article Link (you need to be a onelist member)

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: : It is possible to accelerate a tortoise�s growth without causing any harm (even long term). I am very concerned for the health of all the tortoises I raise. I think that most other breeders do also. : : I am glad to hear that you would pay what ever it took to get a legal 4-inch captive hatched and raised tortoise. Unfortunately from my experiance most people won�t. They would much rather buy an illegal hatchling or a wild caught animal. As people become more educated this will change. : : Incidentally for years people were under the impression that accelerating a snake�s growth would jeopardize or shorten the life of the snake. This has proven to be untrue. There are longevity records for captive hatched snakes that were raised to breeding size in a fraction of what it would take in nature. I think this will be true for tortoises also. Remember I am only talking about raising tortoises to 4-inches. It takes a little over a year for me to raise a leopard tortoise to 4-inches, so thats not real fast. Again I am trying to bring out the idea that environmental conditions are very important. I believe they play a major role in the development of a tortoise�s shell. Thank you for your input. : Richard, : Firstly. Big difference between snakes and grazing herbivores. Totally diffent digestive tract chemistry and water balance needs. : Second, I have autopsied many, many tortoises over the years and I consistently find damaged liver/kidneys in animals subjected to high growth rates. Smoothness of shell is very far from the only criteria to be considered. Come back in 25, 50 and 75 years and tell me that there are no long term health problems! Bottom line is that you cannot know. : FWIW, there is a draft of some of my latest work in this field at the link below. Basically addressing environment and the nutrition/environment interface. It has never been our position that high protein is the *only* factor in how well (or badly) a tortoise grows - merely that it is undoubtedly the major factor, by a mile. Climate, temperature and activity cycles do play a role - but indirectly because they influence digestive eficiency, transit times, etc. : Regards, : Andy

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