Barry, You should probably go back and read the post again. I said repeatedly, that one thing doesnt exclude the other thing. I also said, "people should have a wholistic view of the discipline". And if you read again, youll notice that i also said that i am also a private herp keeper/breeder. All i ask is that the society take a moment to look at some issues. That shouldnt elicit such a response as if i was threatening the state of herpetoculture. No need to hoist the flag of the private keeper here, i am on your side. By the way, missed you at the last meeting Barry.:) Steve.