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Posted by matt m on April 14, 2002 at 17:02:06:
In Reply to: Totally disagree, but that's okay....... posted by Kerby... on April 12, 2002 at 22:30:00:
I see your point Kerby, but it suggests an incredibly small, ideal system with perhaps three individuals. Even rosies pyros, etc. have significantly higher densities , even in small habitats.
: :) I know that certain snakes have a small range and males can breed with quite a few females
>>Yes, but other males exist and can and will breed with same females during same breeding period.
(to include their offspring)
>>Assumes many offspring survive and stay local. How many offspring really survive? Lets look at the math. Because these snakes are not increasing in population without bound, and they are not decreasing in numbers dramatically(assuming viable habitat) so therefore the population is in equilibrium, more or less. This means that for every viable adult that breeds, essentialy one is produced to fill its spot. So, what about all the babies that they produce? Does it make sense that they keep expanding in population? Where are the snake exterminators? Why don't we have them, even within those restricted specialized locales?
When a juvenile survives to the youngest breeding age, has any movement occurred throughout the life even within a single hill or mountain, what the population density of the animals of interest in your contiguous small range?
Surely, there are non-relatives? Aren't these guys on the prowl for mates and having like predation pressures and breeding urges?
If there is a meeting of siblings, parents, etc., is it likely to occur at the right time in their lives? Are there systematic differences in the behavior, territory, and migration patterns between males and females?
Rarely are there beliefs and cultural practices that have been consistent across human cultures. Incest, not murder, polygamy, genocide, has been prohibited from every single encountered human culture. It's known that human females find outsiders to their culture, town, whatever attractive. Why?
Snakes though incredibly different from humans, do not follow much difference in their genetic mechanisms. Main factor in common is that we are of the nucleated celled animals, in particular vertebrates. Does it make sense for a system(snake population) to encourage inbreeding?
If so, snakes aren't sentient creatures, making decisions based on ethics of any sort, why wouldn't they interbreed? Again, they can, but there is a huge difference between the probable and the possible. What is the advantage a species gets from inbreeding? Base this on Mendelian genetics as if your selecting for albinism or whatever, but now assume there are lethal/detrimental recessives that occur in all animals, including us and throw those into the equation.
and in a small pocket (pyros and some rosy boas) inbreeding is COMMON. Siblings breed, and the male can breed with different generations of his own offspring, it happens, pure and simple.
>>I've presented two powerful forces to dispel the commonality of inbreeding-a bit of probability theory of a non-ideal system and the drive for a species to survive the limitations of inbreeding that Hardy-Weinberg equation suggests in population genetics.
: Not argueing here, just letting you know that inbreeding in the wild is common in my opinion.
>>I do not agree but I am supporting elements of my discussion. I hope you see the presentation simply as enriching your ability to respond to details rather than just platforms.
Respectfully,
Matt M
: :)
: Cheers.
: Kerby...
