Re: Keys Ratsnake Question

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Posted by J McLean on November 01, 1999 at 07:43:57:

In Reply to: Re: Keys Ratsnake Question posted by Don Soderberg on October 31, 1999 at 22:49:13:

: : Is the hypomelanistic "Keys Ratsnake" a ratsnake or a cornsnake? What is the correct scientific name?

:
: If you're referring to the so-called rosy rat snake, it's not currently considered a separate subspecies. Just plain ole Elaphe guttata guttata. Depending on what key they are caught on, specimens can vary from extremely hypomelanistic to slightly so.

: It is my opinion that this should be a separate subspecies. This snake is as different from the northern corn snake relatives and has significant demographic separation in that it has proven to be a interbreeding group. That is, individuals of the group generally maintain the same look. Some gene pools of them appear to lack the red pigment. Some are desireably yellow in color and many completely lack ventral markings. Most of them are extremely hypomelanistic.

: These differences are enough for snakes of many other genera to be split away from the species or other subspecies.

: As it is with many taxonomic classifications, it depends on general consensus. If a few new books or scientific papers are published identifying them as a separate subspecies, they will be considered such. After all, the snakes can't tell us what they are. We humans give them that designation based on most recent studies. That's why scientific names change back and forth in some animals.

As a lover of guttata(it looks like we are on the wrong forum here) I would like to put my 2 cents in. I have collected rosy rats and seen probably 30 or so wild-caught(they are protected in the lower keys now) specimens. Amazingly, both the darkest(almost normal corn snake looking) and the lighest came from Key West. The largest were from mangrove swamps on Big Pine(over 3'and twice as big in girth as a hosepipe). Although they appear to be hypomelanistic, they don't act like it when bred to the true captive-bred perfected hypos. Similar colored, though much larger cornsnakes occur just Southeast of the Tampa-St. Pete area. Rosies can be real beauties or just basic animals just like any other cornsnake population. My two cents. JM

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: : : Is the hypomelanistic "Keys Ratsnake" a ratsnake or a cornsnake? What is the correct scientific name? : : : : If you're referring to the so-called rosy rat snake, it's not currently considered a separate subspecies. Just plain ole Elaphe guttata guttata. Depending on what key they are caught on, specimens can vary from extremely hypomelanistic to slightly so. : : It is my opinion that this should be a separate subspecies. This snake is as different from the northern corn snake relatives and has significant demographic separation in that it has proven to be a interbreeding group. That is, individuals of the group generally maintain the same look. Some gene pools of them appear to lack the red pigment. Some are desireably yellow in color and many completely lack ventral markings. Most of them are extremely hypomelanistic. : : These differences are enough for snakes of many other genera to be split away from the species or other subspecies. : : As it is with many taxonomic classifications, it depends on general consensus. If a few new books or scientific papers are published identifying them as a separate subspecies, they will be considered such. After all, the snakes can't tell us what they are. We humans give them that designation based on most recent studies. That's why scientific names change back and forth in some animals. : As a lover of guttata(it looks like we are on the wrong forum here) I would like to put my 2 cents in. I have collected rosy rats and seen probably 30 or so wild-caught(they are protected in the lower keys now) specimens. Amazingly, both the darkest(almost normal corn snake looking) and the lighest came from Key West. The largest were from mangrove swamps on Big Pine(over 3'and twice as big in girth as a hosepipe). Although they appear to be hypomelanistic, they don't act like it when bred to the true captive-bred perfected hypos. Similar colored, though much larger cornsnakes occur just Southeast of the Tampa-St. Pete area. Rosies can be real beauties or just basic animals just like any other cornsnake population. My two cents. JM

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