Thanks, Jeff. Here's a few more notes....(long)

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Posted by Terry Cox on November 17, 2001 at 06:34:09:

In Reply to: Why there are studies...long posted by jeff on November 17, 2001 at 00:12:56:

After reading your post I just can't help thinking about the Asian ratsnakes, which I know more about than even the American, since I work with Asians more.

K. D. Schulz (1996) in his monumental classic, "A Monograph of the Colubrid Snakes of the Genus Elaphe", increased the knowledge of Asian ratsnakes, and others, immensely. I believe Schulz is a semi-professional herpetologist/herpetoculturist, who worked together with some professionals in Germany to put out this fabulous book. It presents just about everything we know about ratsnakes, including taxonomy, and I think is the perfect example of an amateur doing something to help the hobby, and the Elaphe genus, if you will.

I remember, about two yrs. ago, on this forum, there was some discussion about the direction the Asian Elaphe was going. It was predicted that there would be changes in the genus, Elaphe, because it was too large and there were branches that were unrelated. It was assumed that the radiata group would go and probably get the genus name, Coelognathus, because that was the earliest available genus name (part of the taxonomic system). Recently, that is just what has happened. It took a "scientist", with the time and motivation, to do the required work, because us amateurs don't have the credentials.

Another species that has long been called anything, but an Elaphe, is rufodorsata. It was also changed. It is now called, Ocatochus rufodorsata. I don't know where this genus name came from. I assume no old name was available, so a new one had to be made up.

I have not read the work that goes along with these changes, yet, and don't know when it will be available to the general public, or what it will be called. These notes are just being passed along on the forum. But I assume someday soon, we'll have an official reference. And I know there'll be more changes eventually.

The North American ratsnakes, even with being in the U. S., still have a lot of work to be done on them. It's just going to take a person that has the interest, the time, and the job, to be able to take it on. For one thing, DNA testing now seems to be the definitive end to most, although I still see bunches of problems with using that method solely. I think the people doing the Eastern ratsnake, obsoleta, are using molecular biology to compare lineages, and look at the controversy that's causing. Probably DNA testing, in combination with old and accepted methods, will be the key to at least some taxonomic problems.

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: After reading your post I just can't help thinking about the Asian ratsnakes, which I know more about than even the American, since I work with Asians more. : K. D. Schulz (1996) in his monumental classic, "A Monograph of the Colubrid Snakes of the Genus Elaphe", increased the knowledge of Asian ratsnakes, and others, immensely. I believe Schulz is a semi-professional herpetologist/herpetoculturist, who worked together with some professionals in Germany to put out this fabulous book. It presents just about everything we know about ratsnakes, including taxonomy, and I think is the perfect example of an amateur doing something to help the hobby, and the Elaphe genus, if you will. : I remember, about two yrs. ago, on this forum, there was some discussion about the direction the Asian Elaphe was going. It was predicted that there would be changes in the genus, Elaphe, because it was too large and there were branches that were unrelated. It was assumed that the radiata group would go and probably get the genus name, Coelognathus, because that was the earliest available genus name (part of the taxonomic system). Recently, that is just what has happened. It took a "scientist", with the time and motivation, to do the required work, because us amateurs don't have the credentials. : Another species that has long been called anything, but an Elaphe, is rufodorsata. It was also changed. It is now called, Ocatochus rufodorsata. I don't know where this genus name came from. I assume no old name was available, so a new one had to be made up. : I have not read the work that goes along with these changes, yet, and don't know when it will be available to the general public, or what it will be called. These notes are just being passed along on the forum. But I assume someday soon, we'll have an official reference. And I know there'll be more changes eventually. : The North American ratsnakes, even with being in the U. S., still have a lot of work to be done on them. It's just going to take a person that has the interest, the time, and the job, to be able to take it on. For one thing, DNA testing now seems to be the definitive end to most, although I still see bunches of problems with using that method solely. I think the people doing the Eastern ratsnake, obsoleta, are using molecular biology to compare lineages, and look at the controversy that's causing. Probably DNA testing, in combination with old and accepted methods, will be the key to at least some taxonomic problems.

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