guttata (I think) and pic

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Posted by TravisG on November 16, 2001 at 20:42:55:

In Reply to: Re: No, they are E. emoryi..... posted by Terry Cox on November 15, 2001 at 16:25:33:

Straying a little from the topic
I have the article written by Vaughn, and although some of her assumptions are based on small samples I do see a distinction between the east Tx guttata and emoryi. Robc and I were collecting these east Tx guttata this summer for Dr. Dixon and Vaughn to do blood work to strenghten there statement. These are beautiful animals whatever you classify them as, here is a pic of one of the males.

ps meanest snake I own:)

TravisG

: Scott,

: Thanks for your comments, but I still don't get it. I went to CNAH, and read the comments about E. emoryi, but was confused. First, it says that Vaughan, et.al (1996) clearly showed that emoryi was a distinct species, but she didn't say that at all in her paper. She said there were three subspecies of guttata.

: It seems to me that someone is making a determination, which isn't based on actual data and field work. As far as I know, the 1996 work by Vaughan, Dixon, and Thomas, was the last scientific work on this subject. Just goes to show there's always going to be differences of opinion, even in the academic world.

: What I wish we could see is some agreement. I don't care if "intermontana" is E. guttata, or E. emoryi, but I'd like to see a system where we're agreeing to treat it a certain way, and just go with it. Whichever way we go with the Great Plains ratsnakes, "intermontana" is pretty special and isolated, and I think should qualify as a subspecies of either emoryi or guttata. I'd gladly call it E. emoryi intermontana, if that's what the scientific community agrees on.

: Thanks again,

: Terry

: : : Great Plains Ratsnakes were once considered a subspecies of guttata but they have been evalated to species level-E. emoryi. Checkout the Center for North American Herpetology for the latest scientific names for N.Am. herps. BTW nice photos of your intermontana, you can really see and appreciate the green hues of their blotches.

: : : I believe that "intermontana" is currently classified as E. guttata emoryi, and I agree with you that they seem quite different. I just picked up a pair of F1 neonates from w. CO stock, pics below, that I plan on working with. They have some unique characteristics and are a cool snake.

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: Straying a little from the topic : I have the article written by Vaughn, and although some of her assumptions are based on small samples I do see a distinction between the east Tx guttata and emoryi. Robc and I were collecting these east Tx guttata this summer for Dr. Dixon and Vaughn to do blood work to strenghten there statement. These are beautiful animals whatever you classify them as, here is a pic of one of the males. : ps meanest snake I own:) : TravisG : : Scott, : : Thanks for your comments, but I still don't get it. I went to CNAH, and read the comments about E. emoryi, but was confused. First, it says that Vaughan, et.al (1996) clearly showed that emoryi was a distinct species, but she didn't say that at all in her paper. She said there were three subspecies of guttata. : : It seems to me that someone is making a determination, which isn't based on actual data and field work. As far as I know, the 1996 work by Vaughan, Dixon, and Thomas, was the last scientific work on this subject. Just goes to show there's always going to be differences of opinion, even in the academic world. : : What I wish we could see is some agreement. I don't care if "intermontana" is E. guttata, or E. emoryi, but I'd like to see a system where we're agreeing to treat it a certain way, and just go with it. Whichever way we go with the Great Plains ratsnakes, "intermontana" is pretty special and isolated, and I think should qualify as a subspecies of either emoryi or guttata. I'd gladly call it E. emoryi intermontana, if that's what the scientific community agrees on. : : Thanks again, : : Terry : : : : : Great Plains Ratsnakes were once considered a subspecies of guttata but they have been evalated to species level-E. emoryi. Checkout the Center for North American Herpetology for the latest scientific names for N.Am. herps. BTW nice photos of your intermontana, you can really see and appreciate the green hues of their blotches. : : : : I believe that "intermontana" is currently classified as E. guttata emoryi, and I agree with you that they seem quite different. I just picked up a pair of F1 neonates from w. CO stock, pics below, that I plan on working with. They have some unique characteristics and are a cool snake.

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