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Posted by jeff on August 29, 2001 at 20:20:52:

In Reply to: Re: defending my simple response posted by Ronda on August 28, 2001 at 23:00:36:

: : I've been dealing with other colubrids(mostly mmilks) for over 10 years and I have a good grasp of how to medicate. Shotgunning wc animals with flagyl and panacure was a highly successful method to rid specimens of internal parasites I've used for a long time. I haven't dealt with any wc in the past 5 yrs and instead of treating the specimens with techniques more than 5 years old I asked the forum for a possible diagnosis to possibly find any new techniques(such as a particular order in medicating) being used and have had to defend my patience. WC ratsnakes are not the best specimens to work with

: Any wild caught animal is not the best specimen to work with. With the abundance of obsoleta being bred in captivity, I don't see the need to collect "a bunch" of them. Captive bred animals should eliminate the need to automatically "shotgun" with drugs. But that is a whole different issue...

: and they should not evoke an emotional response to legitamate questions.

: I apologize if my first response came across as emotional. Re-read your post...I'm sure I'm not the only one who prickled with anger after reading that you were too lazy to properly care for your animals.

: : I consider this forum to be a tool like any other tool in treating, medicating,housing or reproducing specimens in my collection.

: This forum is a great resource. However, it should not be used in place of a veterinarian's expertise. Simply stating that your wild caught ratsnake is spitting up mucous is not nearly enough information to make any conclusions. If you had posted this in the Health forum you probably would have gotten the same response... take the animals to a vet.

: : I'll understand if others want to contribute to the forum and I'll encourage this but kindly hold off your emotional responses for those roadkills, deformed young, or a "my cats stuck in the tree" story. So I was lazy last night, it happens, please be constructive with your critcizms or at least point me in the right direction(the last time I went to a vet with a sick snake he charged me big $$$ and it died on the way home from HIM overmedicating it. ).

: I gave two pieces of contructive criticism: use your microscope and use your vet. I'm sorry to hear that your last vet experience was not a good one. Perhaps he overmedicated, or perhaps the snake was too far gone and died from its original ailment. We'll never know. Yes, vets can be expensive; that's part of the cost of keeping animals. It can also take some looking to find a herp vet that you are comfortable with. Another one of our responsibilities as reptile owners.

: : I was just asking simple symptomatic diagnosis from experienced keepers with similar problems, I wont ask again.

: Emotions aside, I've had great luck treating minor respiratory infections with lots of heat. Many vets will prescribe Baytril as an antibiotic for pneumonia. Now its your responsibility to determine if it is in fact a respiratory infection that your snakes are suffering from, before "shotgunning" them with assorted drugs.

: You don't always get the response you're looking for when posting to a forum. That's nature of the beast; you get lots of different opinions. My original post was simply that: my opinion. If you don't agree with it, that's okay, check back tomorrow and perhaps you'll get the answer you're looking for from someone else.

: Good luck,
: Ronda
:

When I got these animals(mon), I had enough time to simply check them for external parasites and sex and quarentine them before turning in. I had posted my original to ask of the forum any new and useful tips on the symptomatic description given. I did not collect them and they were not in my care previous and I have since treated them accordingly. I apologize to any of you that thought that my lazyness(1 nite off)contributed to their condition and the responses left that pertained to this. I've had so many bad experiences with vets in my area that I dont trust them, and do most of my own vet work. This is not the best of situations but to me I've no choice. You are all absolutely right that I have to accept the bad with the good when dealing with responses but not until retorts did I get a hint at any answers that I'd asked for (thank you Rhonda!). I dont want to slam anybody and if I did it was my knee-jerk reaction to "take it to a vet",sorry. My response to this would have been---Jeff, get off your lazy but and turn up the heat, get swab samples and administer antibiotics as necessary!!Not what happened.Can we all learn from this?

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: : : I've been dealing with other colubrids(mostly mmilks) for over 10 years and I have a good grasp of how to medicate. Shotgunning wc animals with flagyl and panacure was a highly successful method to rid specimens of internal parasites I've used for a long time. I haven't dealt with any wc in the past 5 yrs and instead of treating the specimens with techniques more than 5 years old I asked the forum for a possible diagnosis to possibly find any new techniques(such as a particular order in medicating) being used and have had to defend my patience. WC ratsnakes are not the best specimens to work with : : <HTML> Any wild caught animal is not the best specimen to work with. With the abundance of obsoleta being bred in captivity, I don't see the need to collect "a bunch" of them. Captive bred animals should eliminate the need to automatically "shotgun" with drugs. But that is a whole different issue... : : and they should not evoke an emotional response to legitamate questions. : : I apologize if my first response came across as emotional. Re-read your post...I'm sure I'm not the only one who prickled with anger after reading that you were too lazy to properly care for your animals. : : : I consider this forum to be a tool like any other tool in treating, medicating,housing or reproducing specimens in my collection. : : This forum is a great resource. However, it should not be used in place of a veterinarian's expertise. Simply stating that your wild caught ratsnake is spitting up mucous is not nearly enough information to make any conclusions. If you had posted this in the Health forum you probably would have gotten the same response... take the animals to a vet. : : : I'll understand if others want to contribute to the forum and I'll encourage this but kindly hold off your emotional responses for those roadkills, deformed young, or a "my cats stuck in the tree" story. So I was lazy last night, it happens, please be constructive with your critcizms or at least point me in the right direction(the last time I went to a vet with a sick snake he charged me big $$$ and it died on the way home from HIM overmedicating it. ). : : I gave two pieces of contructive criticism: use your microscope and use your vet. I'm sorry to hear that your last vet experience was not a good one. Perhaps he overmedicated, or perhaps the snake was too far gone and died from its original ailment. We'll never know. Yes, vets can be expensive; that's part of the cost of keeping animals. It can also take some looking to find a herp vet that you are comfortable with. Another one of our responsibilities as reptile owners. : : : I was just asking simple symptomatic diagnosis from experienced keepers with similar problems, I wont ask again. : : Emotions aside, I've had great luck treating minor respiratory infections with lots of heat. Many vets will prescribe Baytril as an antibiotic for pneumonia. Now its your responsibility to determine if it is in fact a respiratory infection that your snakes are suffering from, before "shotgunning" them with assorted drugs. : : You don't always get the response you're looking for when posting to a forum. That's nature of the beast; you get lots of different opinions. My original post was simply that: my opinion. If you don't agree with it, that's okay, check back tomorrow and perhaps you'll get the answer you're looking for from someone else. : : Good luck, : : Ronda : : </HTML> : When I got these animals(mon), I had enough time to simply check them for external parasites and sex and quarentine them before turning in. I had posted my original to ask of the forum any new and useful tips on the symptomatic description given. I did not collect them and they were not in my care previous and I have since treated them accordingly. I apologize to any of you that thought that my lazyness(1 nite off)contributed to their condition and the responses left that pertained to this. I've had so many bad experiences with vets in my area that I dont trust them, and do most of my own vet work. This is not the best of situations but to me I've no choice. You are all absolutely right that I have to accept the bad with the good when dealing with responses but not until retorts did I get a hint at any answers that I'd asked for (thank you Rhonda!). I dont want to slam anybody and if I did it was my knee-jerk reaction to "take it to a vet",sorry. My response to this would have been---Jeff, get off your lazy but and turn up the heat, get swab samples and administer antibiotics as necessary!!Not what happened.Can we all learn from this?

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