E.p.coxi- THE TALE OF THE TAPE/CHECK THIS!!!

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Posted by Walt Deptula on August 03, 2001 at 11:06:11:

Hello Friends,

I believe in the sharing of information in hopes of community benefit so I offer the following data. Late Thursday night (2AM EST) my first E.p.coxi hatchling pipped his (turned out to be male)
egg. By Friday morning, all four eggs had produced healthy, perfect neonates. THE FINAL SEX RATIO ON THESE HATCHLINGS IS 2.2. I had made the decision last season that if I should be fortunate enough to successfully breed my 2 year old female, that I would toy with incubation temperatures based on the previous results (all high male) of the path blazers.
On the 3rd/4th (overnight) of June my female laid 4 seemimgly good eggs and I made the decision to stick with my plan. I incubated the eggs at temperatures ranging from 74-80F. I paid particular attention to what I was guessing was the sex formative period of the first 21 days, a time frame during which I endeavored to keep the temp from hitting 80. My estimate is that the mean temp during this period was 77F. The total incubation period from deposit to first pip was 60 days.

Unfortunately, my scale is not functioning properly so I can only offer neonate lengths. Those figures are as follows:

Female #1 (2 bands)- 30.8cm
Female #2- 30.6cm
Male #1 (neck band)-31cm
Male #2-30.9cm

Conclusions, I have none. The data offered represents a minuscule sample size of no scientific significance. That said, the results (sex ratio) seem improved over past incubations conducted utilizing higher temps. On a side note, I feel that one of the most significant errors we make with general colubrid breedings is excessively high incubation temperature.
I believe that any temp above 82F promotes at least the increased likelihood of birth defects. I feel that cooler temps promote larger, healthier neonates, and have assembled some personal evidence to support this notion (not publishable).

Here is where my coxi story turns even stranger.
I regularly will combine animals from breeding pairs while I clean their mates enclosure. I had done this with the coxi numerous times since the June 3rd egg deposit with no problem. Approximately 48 days post deposit I combined the female coxi with the male again for cleaning purposes, and was surprised to hear commotion. The pair was BREEDING again. Let me emphasize that this was not an attempt to double clutch as I don't consider double clutching a positive practice, particularly with a two year old female. I should point out also that as in the first two breedings I witnessed earlier in the year, there was no tactile alignment, the snakes heads were at opposite ends of the enclosure. My first thought/hope on this unexpected breeding was that perhaps nothing would come of it. This would appear not to be the case however, as my female looks to be gravid again.
My concern is that the male involved has been exposed to warm ambient temps for several months but I am not overly concerned. This breeding may help provide additional evidence to a theory I have developed, which if ultimately proves out, will blow up one of the most long standing accepted herp practices. We will be conducting some experiments from coast to coast come Spring, the results to be published in due time.

Walt Deptula

Follow Ups:

congrats...comments Jim Demirjian 08/04/01 (2)
- Re: congrats...comments Walt Deptula 08/05/01 (1)
  - Incubation mix, getting away from vermiculite patricia sherman 08/08/01 (0)
I bow down to you Walt.... Adam Block 08/03/01 (0)

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: Hello Friends, : I believe in the sharing of information in hopes of community benefit so I offer the following data. Late Thursday night (2AM EST) my first E.p.coxi hatchling pipped his (turned out to be male) : egg. By Friday morning, all four eggs had produced healthy, perfect neonates. THE FINAL SEX RATIO ON THESE HATCHLINGS IS 2.2. I had made the decision last season that if I should be fortunate enough to successfully breed my 2 year old female, that I would toy with incubation temperatures based on the previous results (all high male) of the path blazers. : On the 3rd/4th (overnight) of June my female laid 4 seemimgly good eggs and I made the decision to stick with my plan. I incubated the eggs at temperatures ranging from 74-80F. I paid particular attention to what I was guessing was the sex formative period of the first 21 days, a time frame during which I endeavored to keep the temp from hitting 80. My estimate is that the mean temp during this period was 77F. The total incubation period from deposit to first pip was 60 days. : Unfortunately, my scale is not functioning properly so I can only offer neonate lengths. Those figures are as follows: : Female #1 (2 bands)- 30.8cm : Female #2- 30.6cm : Male #1 (neck band)-31cm : Male #2-30.9cm : Conclusions, I have none. The data offered represents a minuscule sample size of no scientific significance. That said, the results (sex ratio) seem improved over past incubations conducted utilizing higher temps. On a side note, I feel that one of the most significant errors we make with general colubrid breedings is excessively high incubation temperature. : I believe that any temp above 82F promotes at least the increased likelihood of birth defects. I feel that cooler temps promote larger, healthier neonates, and have assembled some personal evidence to support this notion (not publishable). : Here is where my coxi story turns even stranger. : I regularly will combine animals from breeding pairs while I clean their mates enclosure. I had done this with the coxi numerous times since the June 3rd egg deposit with no problem. Approximately 48 days post deposit I combined the female coxi with the male again for cleaning purposes, and was surprised to hear commotion. The pair was BREEDING again. Let me emphasize that this was not an attempt to double clutch as I don't consider double clutching a positive practice, particularly with a two year old female. I should point out also that as in the first two breedings I witnessed earlier in the year, there was no tactile alignment, the snakes heads were at opposite ends of the enclosure. My first thought/hope on this unexpected breeding was that perhaps nothing would come of it. This would appear not to be the case however, as my female looks to be gravid again. : My concern is that the male involved has been exposed to warm ambient temps for several months but I am not overly concerned. This breeding may help provide additional evidence to a theory I have developed, which if ultimately proves out, will blow up one of the most long standing accepted herp practices. We will be conducting some experiments from coast to coast come Spring, the results to be published in due time. : Walt Deptula :

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