several good points but...

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Posted by Jim Demirjian on July 28, 2001 at 18:06:14:

In Reply to: Well, since I opened my mouth... posted by Adam Block on July 28, 2001 at 17:15:42:

I have experience with PE and can say they run a good business, I was totally satisfied with animals I purchased from them.
Also, I used to think that something was wrong with 'businesses' involving the herp keeping hobby. Really though, nothing is wrong with making a living working with animals (herps in this case). Among the nicest people I have met in this hobby do this full time (many of which are in the Corn forum usually). It isn't for all of us,true, but it is beneficial to the entire hobby, in my eyes.
Also, losing any animal is sad and upsetting, but those of us who have tried to keep various forms of Elaphe, before any captive success of the species, knows it is a part of the captive education process to lose animals.I can remember a corn snake I lost many years back, or Elaphe frenata I lost just last year. You must remember one you lost?
One more point is letting people know what is happening in a breeding season. That is not propoganda, it is education for all of us, as I see it. One thing I love about many people in this hobby is the willingness to share info, we are talking about animals, not RC cars.
I think these are good discussions for the forums, as long as they don't get personal, that is what has often kept me off in the past.
Thanks, be well.
Jim

: My father told me a long time ago; "if you don't have something good to say about somebody don't say anything at all". I never once mentioned PE in that post and I never would have. I have a chip on my shoulder about things with many people and PE is not one of them. I'm sorry if it came across as an attack on you. Also, it would be silly to say I wasn't talking about you regarding the coxi so let me address that.

: I think you were very clear with the ad you posted about the price being only on coxi males. I however still had people asking me why the price has dropped on them. Truth of it is, maybe I'm wrong for saying it has anything to do with your post. I can't expect somebody to know what others are going to think. But we all get the same emails, the ones that just say "how much" or "ill take one" and there's nothing else.

: Sometimes I look around for Allen Funt thinking it's just a joke. I think that's the case here, I doubt people are going to be willing to pay the $3000 price tag for pair again, but time will tell right. If the ratios are so poor maybe this is a case of always selling the males for $500 and putting the females at $2500 to anybody that wants one. If you think about it though, I can't see how you think you'll be able to ask $750-$1500 for the same snake depending on what people want it for. That's just not going to work.

: Also, kingsnake.com is not the place to be the first one to advertise a price drop unless they want it that way for good. If somebody were willing to pay $750 for any Elaphe they would have to be a big lover of the genus. And if so they would I'm sure want a pair. Those snake weren't marketed at Elaphe people and I doubt the Lampropeltis people are looking for $750 pet Elaphe.

: Also, not to offend you but PE is a little bit too um, business minded for me. I've yet to see one post in here that wasn't better suited for the ad section. It also seems that maybe only 1 out of 10 are posts trying to help out others. And even then it's only if it is about snakes you're trying to sell. It just bothers me when you say things like "we will be at Daytona, with Rhinos, Coxi, Mandarins, as well as other animals." Come on, that should be in the ad section not the forums.

: I don't want it to seem like I'm pointing just you out here but you asked. You must be quality breeders and you have the skill to breed many different snakes so you must be a professional business. I also can't blame you for acting like a business but at the same time you can't blame me for pointing out this is a hobby. Even if some of us make our living off snakes it's still just our hobby and love first.

: I can't blame you for posting to coxi at the price you did, it's not like you wanted to keep 20 pets around for no reason. I only commented on the manner you did it in. I don't think it's good to advertise a price like that to however many visitors kingsnake boasts.

: I'm sure I'm going to get some juke about this post and I know many of you are working with the coxi. Here's something to think about though, I know what Walt went through and gave up to get his. And I'm sure many others have gone through the same things. Where are wife's are looking at us saying, "you know we could use a new car right". Statements like "we lost a number of animals ourselves" are not ones you'd hear from anybody except a business trying to make money, and that's okay. I consider that to be 3 or 4 snakes and at $1500 each we're talking about a $4500 to $6000 loss. If I or any other Elaphe person I know took a hit like that we'd be ready to jump off a bridge!

: Thanks and remember no offence here,
: Adam Block

: I want to make it clear I'm not bashing PE in any way. I think we all understand they are a business and have a GREAT reputation among breeders. I have never had the chance to do business with them but I wouldn't think twice about it if they had a snake I wanted. I doubt there's anybody who could find a bad thing to say about PE!

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: I have experience with PE and can say they run a good business, I was totally satisfied with animals I purchased from them. : Also, I used to think that something was wrong with 'businesses' involving the herp keeping hobby. Really though, nothing is wrong with making a living working with animals (herps in this case). Among the nicest people I have met in this hobby do this full time (many of which are in the Corn forum usually). It isn't for all of us,true, but it is beneficial to the entire hobby, in my eyes. : Also, losing any animal is sad and upsetting, but those of us who have tried to keep various forms of Elaphe, before any captive success of the species, knows it is a part of the captive education process to lose animals.I can remember a corn snake I lost many years back, or Elaphe frenata I lost just last year. You must remember one you lost? : One more point is letting people know what is happening in a breeding season. That is not propoganda, it is education for all of us, as I see it. One thing I love about many people in this hobby is the willingness to share info, we are talking about animals, not RC cars. : I think these are good discussions for the forums, as long as they don't get personal, that is what has often kept me off in the past. : Thanks, be well. : Jim : : My father told me a long time ago; "if you don't have something good to say about somebody don't say anything at all". I never once mentioned PE in that post and I never would have. I have a chip on my shoulder about things with many people and PE is not one of them. I'm sorry if it came across as an attack on you. Also, it would be silly to say I wasn't talking about you regarding the coxi so let me address that. : : I think you were very clear with the ad you posted about the price being only on coxi males. I however still had people asking me why the price has dropped on them. Truth of it is, maybe I'm wrong for saying it has anything to do with your post. I can't expect somebody to know what others are going to think. But we all get the same emails, the ones that just say "how much" or "ill take one" and there's nothing else. : : Sometimes I look around for Allen Funt thinking it's just a joke. I think that's the case here, I doubt people are going to be willing to pay the $3000 price tag for pair again, but time will tell right. If the ratios are so poor maybe this is a case of always selling the males for $500 and putting the females at $2500 to anybody that wants one. If you think about it though, I can't see how you think you'll be able to ask $750-$1500 for the same snake depending on what people want it for. That's just not going to work. : : Also, kingsnake.com is not the place to be the first one to advertise a price drop unless they want it that way for good. If somebody were willing to pay $750 for any Elaphe they would have to be a big lover of the genus. And if so they would I'm sure want a pair. Those snake weren't marketed at Elaphe people and I doubt the Lampropeltis people are looking for $750 pet Elaphe. : : Also, not to offend you but PE is a little bit too um, business minded for me. I've yet to see one post in here that wasn't better suited for the ad section. It also seems that maybe only 1 out of 10 are posts trying to help out others. And even then it's only if it is about snakes you're trying to sell. It just bothers me when you say things like "we will be at Daytona, with Rhinos, Coxi, Mandarins, as well as other animals." Come on, that should be in the ad section not the forums. : : I don't want it to seem like I'm pointing just you out here but you asked. You must be quality breeders and you have the skill to breed many different snakes so you must be a professional business. I also can't blame you for acting like a business but at the same time you can't blame me for pointing out this is a hobby. Even if some of us make our living off snakes it's still just our hobby and love first. : : I can't blame you for posting to coxi at the price you did, it's not like you wanted to keep 20 pets around for no reason. I only commented on the manner you did it in. I don't think it's good to advertise a price like that to however many visitors kingsnake boasts. : : I'm sure I'm going to get some juke about this post and I know many of you are working with the coxi. Here's something to think about though, I know what Walt went through and gave up to get his. And I'm sure many others have gone through the same things. Where are wife's are looking at us saying, "you know we could use a new car right". Statements like "we lost a number of animals ourselves" are not ones you'd hear from anybody except a business trying to make money, and that's okay. I consider that to be 3 or 4 snakes and at $1500 each we're talking about a $4500 to $6000 loss. If I or any other Elaphe person I know took a hit like that we'd be ready to jump off a bridge! : : Thanks and remember no offence here, : : Adam Block : : I want to make it clear I'm not bashing PE in any way. I think we all understand they are a business and have a GREAT reputation among breeders. I have never had the chance to do business with them but I wouldn't think twice about it if they had a snake I wanted. I doubt there's anybody who could find a bad thing to say about PE!

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