Good points, all....and here's a couple more....

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Posted by Terry Cox on July 01, 2001 at 04:37:14:

In Reply to: Re: Maybe not so good...... Some thoughts posted by Walt Deptula on July 01, 2001 at 03:38:21:

:
: : Hi
: : I have been thinking about this issue for some years.
: : There is an aspect that we might consider before helping neonates:
: : Naure didn`t want anything but the strongest to survive, but we can (and do) help weaker/unsuited animals to survive and breed them later on. If this problem is genetic, we could get problems with later generations. Oh I know we wants them all and for some it is also a matter of future money making, but is it in the end a good idea???
: : On the other hand it is very easy to slit an egg. I have tried to remove a piece of the top egg shel after about 2 weeks and place plastic in stead ( from the plastic used in the kitchen to wrap around fod) Then I could follow the embryo and it`s growth. It was quite fascinating and the juvenile hatched like all the others.
: : Best wishes
: : S�e

: Hi Soe,

: I agree with you that Darwin's theories apply in nature but this is captivity where we (keepers)
: play a unnatural role in the entire process.
: We cannot equate captivity to nature because we guide the entire reproduction procedure and therefore have an obligation to all neonates including the weak. We must consider the fact that the weak might not be so at all, rather that our husbandry techniques (hundreds of unknown factors) may have contributed to the animal that fails to emerge without help.

: Walt Deptula

Walt and Soe, what you both are saying is making sense, but I guess it depends on which species you're working with too, and what you're trying to accomplish. If the snake was a corn snake, I'd be more inclined to agree with Soe, but if the snake was a prasina, I'd be inclined to agree with Walt. When there's only a few eggs, and they are so important to the hobby, then it's relative to have each hatch, and have a chance at life.

When I watched my South Korean dione's hatching, there were several things I took into consideration. It was a large clutch (ten) and I didn't need all to hatch to serve my purpose; the imperfect egg, I thought would have an imperfect baby (I was wrong); but importantly, there were a couple eggs I thought had a poor chance at hatching, like the one buried on the bottom with little surface exposed (to slit).

Not all eggs in a large clutch hatch at the same time either. The one on top took a couple days longer. Makes sense, since it wasn't as close to the heat source under the container. And one more thing, when some of the babies have their noses or heads poking out, it's very scary to try to slit other eggs, because you might scare the first ones into hiding.

All in all, I agree that some snakes have a harder time than others getting out of the eggs, and if you know the technique, slitting the eggs is probably good. With some snakes, I think they just should take their chances. Interesting question. Later.

Terry

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: : : : : Hi : : : I have been thinking about this issue for some years. : : : There is an aspect that we might consider before helping neonates: : : : Naure didn`t want anything but the strongest to survive, but we can (and do) help weaker/unsuited animals to survive and breed them later on. If this problem is genetic, we could get problems with later generations. Oh I know we wants them all and for some it is also a matter of future money making, but is it in the end a good idea??? : : : On the other hand it is very easy to slit an egg. I have tried to remove a piece of the top egg shel after about 2 weeks and place plastic in stead ( from the plastic used in the kitchen to wrap around fod) Then I could follow the embryo and it`s growth. It was quite fascinating and the juvenile hatched like all the others. : : : Best wishes : : : S�e : : Hi Soe, : : I agree with you that Darwin's theories apply in nature but this is captivity where we (keepers) : : play a unnatural role in the entire process. : : We cannot equate captivity to nature because we guide the entire reproduction procedure and therefore have an obligation to all neonates including the weak. We must consider the fact that the weak might not be so at all, rather that our husbandry techniques (hundreds of unknown factors) may have contributed to the animal that fails to emerge without help. : : Walt Deptula : Walt and Soe, what you both are saying is making sense, but I guess it depends on which species you're working with too, and what you're trying to accomplish. If the snake was a corn snake, I'd be more inclined to agree with Soe, but if the snake was a prasina, I'd be inclined to agree with Walt. When there's only a few eggs, and they are so important to the hobby, then it's relative to have each hatch, and have a chance at life. : When I watched my South Korean dione's hatching, there were several things I took into consideration. It was a large clutch (ten) and I didn't need all to hatch to serve my purpose; the imperfect egg, I thought would have an imperfect baby (I was wrong); but importantly, there were a couple eggs I thought had a poor chance at hatching, like the one buried on the bottom with little surface exposed (to slit). : Not all eggs in a large clutch hatch at the same time either. The one on top took a couple days longer. Makes sense, since it wasn't as close to the heat source under the container. And one more thing, when some of the babies have their noses or heads poking out, it's very scary to try to slit other eggs, because you might scare the first ones into hiding. : All in all, I agree that some snakes have a harder time than others getting out of the eggs, and if you know the technique, slitting the eggs is probably good. With some snakes, I think they just should take their chances. Interesting question. Later. : Terry

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