HELP.....!!! Info needed

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Rat Snake Forum ] [ FAQ ]

Posted by AdamMaz on June 29, 2001 at 20:50:00:

My friend Jan had a snake go into her duck box with a hen seeting... I IDed the snakes a black rats. black color white belly etc. She killed the nake and put it in a flower pot before she was going to burry it. I said I thought it was an Indigo by her previous ID. she put the body and the snakes head in the pot and double bagged it (im not sure if she tied it etc.) then in the morning the Head and body were gone, I said I didn't think the snake would have been able to kow where it was going to get out, but it may still thrash a bit. And the head was gone too, I suspected the other black rat which I thought may be an Indigo came in ate it. Im not sure if black rats are cannabalistic tho. i appreciate any help anyone can shed on this situation.
Thank You
Adam

>>Hi Adam,

Thanks for your response. I will enclose a picture I took of the two snakes breeding in the front yard about 3 weeks ago. That's why I thought she was a "she". The larger snake was on top. If I remember correctly, the cloacal orifice that houses the hemipenie (sp?) is on the bottom side of the male. Tell me what you think from the picture, if it's clear enough. I thought the males were smaller too, until I saw them breeding, then I was confused about who was who!

My Dad is a Veterinarian (though does not specialize in herpetology) and I talked to him just after I posted. He and another Veterinarian (friend) suggested that because 85% of a snake's CNS is located along the length of the spine, it would be possible for the body of a "headless" snake to continue to move long enough to move the body quite a ways from the original site. (Even though there is no sense of direction, so to speak.) They also think that the other snake may have found the head and cannibalized it. That would certainly account for the fact that the plastic trash bag on top of the pot had not been removed. Both the dead snake's body and the other snake could have slipped under the trash bag and the bag would have fallen right back into place when they left. I suppose that's plausible. (Also somewhat CREEPY!)

To answer some of your questions. I live in Central NC. (Just outside Greensboro) I killed the snake at approximately 5:00 p.m. I fed the ducks and put them in for the night and about 30 minutes later went back to the driveway and stretched out the body as best I could (it was still contracting and moving slightly) to measure it. It measured almost exactly 76". All of our dogs were curious about what was in the flower pot under the trash bag and were sniffing around it about 7:30 p.m. when my husband came home. That's the last time we knew for sure it was in the flower pot. When I went out to bury it at 6:00 a.m., both the head and body were long gone. Not even any flies, etc. around. (And none under the plastic, either.) By the way, both snakes are almost completely white under the head and in the "throat" area, then some white mottled markings to approximately halfway down the body on the underside. The scales on top are very gloss black, but each triangular scale is rimmed in white. They look solid black until you get close and they move, then you can easily see the white behind each scale. Here they are:

AND

Both snakes have distinctly triangular shaped heads, much wider at the back. Almost like a copperhead in shape. My photography skills are about like my snake identification skills...not too great! Hope these pictures will help you identify species.

Thanks for the help Adam.

Jan<<

Follow Ups:

FYI - there are no indigo snakes in N. Carolina. Chris H. 06/30/01 (0)

Post a Followup

Name:
E-Mail:

Subject:

Comments:
: My friend Jan had a snake go into her duck box with a hen seeting... I IDed the snakes a black rats. black color white belly etc. She killed the nake and put it in a flower pot before she was going to burry it. I said I thought it was an Indigo by her previous ID. she put the body and the snakes head in the pot and double bagged it (im not sure if she tied it etc.) then in the morning the Head and body were gone, I said I didn't think the snake would have been able to kow where it was going to get out, but it may still thrash a bit. And the head was gone too, I suspected the other black rat which I thought may be an Indigo came in ate it. Im not sure if black rats are cannabalistic tho. i appreciate any help anyone can shed on this situation. : Thank You : Adam : >>Hi Adam, : : Thanks for your response. I will enclose a picture I took of the two snakes breeding in the front yard about 3 weeks ago. That's why I thought she was a "she". The larger snake was on top. If I remember correctly, the cloacal orifice that houses the hemipenie (sp?) is on the bottom side of the male. Tell me what you think from the picture, if it's clear enough. I thought the males were smaller too, until I saw them breeding, then I was confused about who was who! : : My Dad is a Veterinarian (though does not specialize in herpetology) and I talked to him just after I posted. He and another Veterinarian (friend) suggested that because 85% of a snake's CNS is located along the length of the spine, it would be possible for the body of a "headless" snake to continue to move long enough to move the body quite a ways from the original site. (Even though there is no sense of direction, so to speak.) They also think that the other snake may have found the head and cannibalized it. That would certainly account for the fact that the plastic trash bag on top of the pot had not been removed. Both the dead snake's body and the other snake could have slipped under the trash bag and the bag would have fallen right back into place when they left. I suppose that's plausible. (Also somewhat CREEPY!) : : To answer some of your questions. I live in Central NC. (Just outside Greensboro) I killed the snake at approximately 5:00 p.m. I fed the ducks and put them in for the night and about 30 minutes later went back to the driveway and stretched out the body as best I could (it was still contracting and moving slightly) to measure it. It measured almost exactly 76". All of our dogs were curious about what was in the flower pot under the trash bag and were sniffing around it about 7:30 p.m. when my husband came home. That's the last time we knew for sure it was in the flower pot. When I went out to bury it at 6:00 a.m., both the head and body were long gone. Not even any flies, etc. around. (And none under the plastic, either.) By the way, both snakes are almost completely white under the head and in the "throat" area, then some white mottled markings to approximately halfway down the body on the underside. The scales on top are very gloss black, but each triangular scale is rimmed in white. They look solid black until you get close and they move, then you can easily see the white behind each scale. Here they are: : : : AND : : : Both snakes have distinctly triangular shaped heads, much wider at the back. Almost like a copperhead in shape. My photography skills are about like my snake identification skills...not too great! Hope these pictures will help you identify species. : : Thanks for the help Adam. : : Jan<<

Optional Link URL:
Link Title:
Optional Image URL:

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Rat Snake Forum ] [ FAQ ]