ditto!

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Posted by trey on May 08, 2001 at 14:55:54:

In Reply to: I DO believe it and welcome it posted by dave t on May 07, 2001 at 21:39:03:

As an educator, I'm constantly frustrated by the pre-Darwinian viewpoint that exists for reptiles. Chelonia in particular should be put in their own class, particularly if we continue to do so for aves. Crocs and aves also warrant close placement. Yet the textbooks continue with this antiquated system, and teachers keep on teaching it. Until there's a serious shake-up, the unenlightened viewpoint will continue. And it IS important, as our understanding of phylogeny and who begat whom deepens our understanding of the world- past and present. But my guess is we'll keep the "archaic" relationships, because "that's the way we've always done it".

: Lizards have not shared a common ancestor with chelonians for some 200 million years; I don't have any problems at all with turtles and tortoises being given a taxonomic distinction. Ditto for crocodilians; physiologically, they are far removed from other "reptiles", and they certainly engage in behaviors that are indeed more birdlike than reptilian. Not least of these is the time and energy invested in the care of their young. I imagine also that the genetic affinity of crocodilians to birds is much closer than that to squamates. High time we recognized these relationships if you ask me; now, if we can just formally recognize that studying reptiles and amphibians as "herpetology" is an equally false grouping!

: : Recently at Herpetology Weekend at Natural Bridge State Park here in kentucky I was among a couple hundred people in attendance who witnessed Joseph T. Collins talk on the future of the Peterson Field Guide to East/Cental N. American Reptiles, Turtles and Crocodillians. (note the title change as well)
: : And it seems the geneticists have determined that there are in fact 3 species of Ratsnakes formerly included in the obsoleta complex. Eastern Ratsnakes are now knowen as E.alleganiensis. Includes blacks, yellows, glades, etc...their range extends west to the LA purchase in KY. E. spilotes. Grey rats. and E. obsoleta "the western ratsnake." west of the mississippi river.
: : anyone....Bueller...Bueller...
: : In addition to this little tidbit Turtles are now classified in their own class, the Chelonia removed forevermore from class Reptillia, and Crocs are infact BIRDS!
: : Happy debating,
: : Ron

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: As an educator, I'm constantly frustrated by the pre-Darwinian viewpoint that exists for reptiles. Chelonia in particular should be put in their own class, particularly if we continue to do so for aves. Crocs and aves also warrant close placement. Yet the textbooks continue with this antiquated system, and teachers keep on teaching it. Until there's a serious shake-up, the unenlightened viewpoint will continue. And it IS important, as our understanding of phylogeny and who begat whom deepens our understanding of the world- past and present. But my guess is we'll keep the "archaic" relationships, because "that's the way we've always done it". : : Lizards have not shared a common ancestor with chelonians for some 200 million years; I don't have any problems at all with turtles and tortoises being given a taxonomic distinction. Ditto for crocodilians; physiologically, they are far removed from other "reptiles", and they certainly engage in behaviors that are indeed more birdlike than reptilian. Not least of these is the time and energy invested in the care of their young. I imagine also that the genetic affinity of crocodilians to birds is much closer than that to squamates. High time we recognized these relationships if you ask me; now, if we can just formally recognize that studying reptiles and amphibians as "herpetology" is an equally false grouping! : : : Recently at Herpetology Weekend at Natural Bridge State Park here in kentucky I was among a couple hundred people in attendance who witnessed Joseph T. Collins talk on the future of the Peterson Field Guide to East/Cental N. American Reptiles, Turtles and Crocodillians. (note the title change as well) : : : And it seems the geneticists have determined that there are in fact 3 species of Ratsnakes formerly included in the obsoleta complex. Eastern Ratsnakes are now knowen as E.alleganiensis. Includes blacks, yellows, glades, etc...their range extends west to the LA purchase in KY. E. spilotes. Grey rats. and E. obsoleta "the western ratsnake." west of the mississippi river. : : : anyone....Bueller...Bueller... : : : In addition to this little tidbit Turtles are now classified in their own class, the Chelonia removed forevermore from class Reptillia, and Crocs are infact BIRDS! : : : Happy debating, : : : Ron

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