Re: Will we ever learn..... The mandarin story

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Posted by Shannon Hiatt on August 05, 2000 at 08:15:36:

In Reply to: Will we ever learn..... The mandarin story posted by Pedersen, S�e on August 02, 2000 at 17:12:26:

: I hear it over and over again. "I just bought a wild caught Elaphe mandarina. What should I do to keep it alive?"
: Why.. why.. why..
: Yes wild captured animals are cheaper.... much cheaper, but there are cb on the market, and their numbers are increasing.
: How many mandarins that are imported over the years into USA and Europe are counted in ten thousands, and how many survives their first year...... Almost NONE. They are always suffering from various parasites, stress and dehydration, and it takes years to get them established into captivity, if ever.
: My story with my mandarins should scare most reptile keepers, AND IT HAD A SUCCESSFUL ENDING:
: An adult pair was imported to Europe in 1981. They were placed in an outdoor terrarium for 2 years, and placed afterwards in a typical terrarium. The bottom was filled with long plastic tupes going from one corner (hot and dry) to the other (cold and moist).
: I didn`t see the animals for several years outside these tupes. They ate only 2-3 newborn rats every year, but looked OK. In 1989 they started showing themself at times at night and began eating a little more. In 1990 they gained a little weight and began eating in the Autum too. Before that it was only just after hibernation. I always hibernated them for 4-5 months very cold, and finally in 1991 I got my first juveniles. WHO HAS THE TIME FOR THAT. Remember the first clutch of mandarins was in 1989 made by Gillingham and M�nzenmaier, so there were many trying and trying to brake the key without success.
: Some years ago there were 2 very skilled Asian ratsnake breeders that went to China and brought back about 200 mandarins and moellendorffi. These animals were quickly moved from the wild and into captivity. The idea was that the survival rate should be much higher but even seperately kept, almost all died shortly after.
: The year is now 2000 and there are frequently captive bred mandarins for sale, and still there are imported so many animals to a surtain death.
: This is not only for mandarins, but for many other ratsnakes too especially the Asian ones.
: Do we REALLY want these animals..... Pay the price (I know it is hard I just ordered porphyracea cb`s)or forget keeping them. Don`t experience if you arn`t a very skilled Vet and ratsnake keeper.
: Best wishes
: S�e

Soe et al

There is another aspect to this terrible story that bears consideration. Location of the herpers who want to breed these magnificent snakes. I live in far, far West Texas (the REAL West Texas). Although we are at about 4,000 feet altitude, it gets hot in the El Paso region. And this is NOT a good place to cultivate the Mandarin Rats--not even CB Mandarins--unless they are kept in an air conditioned room.

I have passed on breeding these beauties because I know they would be stressed beyond their limits in my swap cooler cooled garage. The old alcove on the west side used to get to 100 degrees BEFORE I put the shop cooler (floor model) with a 150 gallon water tank in the garage. It stays at 80 to 85 degrees inb that HOT corner now--still way too hot for Mandarain and the knobs I used to have. I am still working with deppei jani (anther montane snake that requires cooler temps) but keep them at the floor level on the concrete and supply a frozen job of water next to one side of the tray daily. Thanks God I only have five to cultivate!

So . . . as much as I admire the beauty of several Rat Snakes from the Orient, I will pass. They are too beautiful for me to kill in my desire to covet them and to "show" them off.

Shannon Hiatt

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: : I hear it over and over again. "I just bought a wild caught Elaphe mandarina. What should I do to keep it alive?" : : Why.. why.. why.. : : Yes wild captured animals are cheaper.... much cheaper, but there are cb on the market, and their numbers are increasing. : : How many mandarins that are imported over the years into USA and Europe are counted in ten thousands, and how many survives their first year...... Almost NONE. They are always suffering from various parasites, stress and dehydration, and it takes years to get them established into captivity, if ever. : : My story with my mandarins should scare most reptile keepers, AND IT HAD A SUCCESSFUL ENDING: : : An adult pair was imported to Europe in 1981. They were placed in an outdoor terrarium for 2 years, and placed afterwards in a typical terrarium. The bottom was filled with long plastic tupes going from one corner (hot and dry) to the other (cold and moist). : : I didn`t see the animals for several years outside these tupes. They ate only 2-3 newborn rats every year, but looked OK. In 1989 they started showing themself at times at night and began eating a little more. In 1990 they gained a little weight and began eating in the Autum too. Before that it was only just after hibernation. I always hibernated them for 4-5 months very cold, and finally in 1991 I got my first juveniles. WHO HAS THE TIME FOR THAT. Remember the first clutch of mandarins was in 1989 made by Gillingham and M�nzenmaier, so there were many trying and trying to brake the key without success. : : Some years ago there were 2 very skilled Asian ratsnake breeders that went to China and brought back about 200 mandarins and moellendorffi. These animals were quickly moved from the wild and into captivity. The idea was that the survival rate should be much higher but even seperately kept, almost all died shortly after. : : The year is now 2000 and there are frequently captive bred mandarins for sale, and still there are imported so many animals to a surtain death. : : This is not only for mandarins, but for many other ratsnakes too especially the Asian ones. : : Do we REALLY want these animals..... Pay the price (I know it is hard I just ordered porphyracea cb`s)or forget keeping them. Don`t experience if you arn`t a very skilled Vet and ratsnake keeper. : : Best wishes : : S�e : : Soe et al : There is another aspect to this terrible story that bears consideration. Location of the herpers who want to breed these magnificent snakes. I live in far, far West Texas (the REAL West Texas). Although we are at about 4,000 feet altitude, it gets hot in the El Paso region. And this is NOT a good place to cultivate the Mandarin Rats--not even CB Mandarins--unless they are kept in an air conditioned room. : I have passed on breeding these beauties because I know they would be stressed beyond their limits in my swap cooler cooled garage. The old alcove on the west side used to get to 100 degrees BEFORE I put the shop cooler (floor model) with a 150 gallon water tank in the garage. It stays at 80 to 85 degrees inb that HOT corner now--still way too hot for Mandarain and the knobs I used to have. I am still working with deppei jani (anther montane snake that requires cooler temps) but keep them at the floor level on the concrete and supply a frozen job of water next to one side of the tray daily. Thanks God I only have five to cultivate! : So . . . as much as I admire the beauty of several Rat Snakes from the Orient, I will pass. They are too beautiful for me to kill in my desire to covet them and to "show" them off. : Shannon Hiatt

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