Re: Kisatchie Corns : the debate rages on

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Posted by Jim McLean on July 17, 1999 at 15:55:49:

In Reply to: Re: Kisatchie Corns : the debate rages on posted by Mike on July 11, 1999 at 14:18:58:

:
: : But, that isn't the main reason I posted a follow-up. What if I told you that they have identifiable corns extremely close to the kisatchie corns? Close enough so that gene flow is possible. I just say that because it isn't out of the realm of possibility that they are not 100% isolated from Eastern Corns or Western emoryi's at this time.

: : KJ

: I agree with you KJ. As you already know, there are corn snakes found in Rapides Parish, near Ball and Tioga, that do not much different than corns found east of the Mississippi River. This population is only about 30 miles or so from the "Kisatchie" corns. Who knows how far west this population goes. The only major change in habitat between these populations is some farming area adjacent to the Red River.

Oh Boy,
One of my favorite topics of passionate discussion!!! Let me hop into the fray. I have had one of the Ball, LA animals as I know Mike has had. Actually a mutual friend of ours had three from that local: one dark, much like a Kistachie and two that were typical of LA guttata guttata with the exception of less bold black blotches on the venter(at least in the one I had). To further add confusion, the Bienville specimen depicted in Klaus Dieter-Schulz monograph is unlike all of the specimens trapped in that area recently in a pine snake research project. The one glaring feature in Kisatchie animals that reminds me of emoryi is their often savage nature. Some never settle down in captivity. I've got two males now that bite every time you clean or otherwise mess with their cage. I've seen a few mean guttata, but in the hundreds I've personally handled, I can't think of more than a dozen or so that were calm. Probably two thirds of the Kisatchie males I've handled (25 or so)have had an attitude. Certainly there are emorys genes as well as guttatas in them, but I think they are a secondary integrade population. Does anyone know about guttat from Northeast LA? Let's keep the discussion going. Jim

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: : : : : But, that isn't the main reason I posted a follow-up. What if I told you that they have identifiable corns extremely close to the kisatchie corns? Close enough so that gene flow is possible. I just say that because it isn't out of the realm of possibility that they are not 100% isolated from Eastern Corns or Western emoryi's at this time. : : : KJ : : I agree with you KJ. As you already know, there are corn snakes found in Rapides Parish, near Ball and Tioga, that do not much different than corns found east of the Mississippi River. This population is only about 30 miles or so from the "Kisatchie" corns. Who knows how far west this population goes. The only major change in habitat between these populations is some farming area adjacent to the Red River. : Oh Boy, : One of my favorite topics of passionate discussion!!! Let me hop into the fray. I have had one of the Ball, LA animals as I know Mike has had. Actually a mutual friend of ours had three from that local: one dark, much like a Kistachie and two that were typical of LA guttata guttata with the exception of less bold black blotches on the venter(at least in the one I had). To further add confusion, the Bienville specimen depicted in Klaus Dieter-Schulz monograph is unlike all of the specimens trapped in that area recently in a pine snake research project. The one glaring feature in Kisatchie animals that reminds me of emoryi is their often savage nature. Some never settle down in captivity. I've got two males now that bite every time you clean or otherwise mess with their cage. I've seen a few mean guttata, but in the hundreds I've personally handled, I can't think of more than a dozen or so that were calm. Probably two thirds of the Kisatchie males I've handled (25 or so)have had an attitude. Certainly there are emorys genes as well as guttatas in them, but I think they are a secondary integrade population. Does anyone know about guttat from Northeast LA? Let's keep the discussion going. Jim

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