Re: Is there a mutation going on?

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Posted by Walt Deptula on August 01, 2000 at 09:49:46:

In Reply to: Is there a mutation going on? posted by Terry on August 01, 2000 at 06:14:07:

:
: : That's interesting, Terry. Did the same pairing produce this season?

: Yes. But the eggs haven't hatched yet.

: Do/did any other neonates exhibit that coloration?

: One of the neonates had more and brighter colored yellow than the rest. It is almost a year old now. The brightness is fading a little though.

: Are your diones gold colored in their normal state?

: I wouldn't call them gold colored, but a washed out yellow most of the time. The Central Chinese dione have more yellow than any other dione location that I know of. They also have a wider mid-dorsal stripe. The yellow sometimes becomes brighter, and I think bright yellow individuals will eventually be bred.

: I am not certain that there exists any correlation betwen the two circumstances other than coincidence. In fact, I doubt it, but who knows. This particular mandarina was totally unique from her clutchmates in this regard. Right to the venter she was completely yellow. Two other hatchlings had a noticable yellow wash, but "normal" ground coloration was still apparent in these individuals. Needless to say, I'm excited about repeating this breeding next season. A completely yellow mandarina (aside from the normal black diamonds) would be a shocking animal, in part, because it differs so from the norm, but doesn't dilute the essence of the animal like a amelanistic mutation might. The contrast between black and yellow would be extreme. Hell, the dead, frozen baby is still shocking to examine. Furthermore, Terry, I would have absolutely no idea what trait could explain the total ground color makeover of this dead-in- egg mandarina. To my knowledge, none would.

: : Walt

:
: I'm getting excited too, Walt. The more I think about it. It really would be a stunning animal. At first I was just taken by the idea of the yellow taking over and becoming the ground color. That means the loss of the normal ground color. I've seen other animals where that appears to be happening. I had a Butler's garter one time where the orange-yellow color was taking over and becoming the ground color. I was very young and ended up letting it go. But thinking back, I think there was a mutation going on there. I don't think it was amelanism, but some mutation that has to do with the dominance of the ground color. It might also have to do with the loss of the normal ground, like an albino's loss of black, thus a mutation. Who knows? Like you I'd like to know more about this, and will continue working with the Chinese dione to try to produce this again.

: I'm anxious to see your picture, Walt. Keep us posted. Thanks.

: TC

Hi Terry,

Very nice looking animal. Bright yellow Central China Diones have been bred THIS season (brighter than anything seen here previously). Bill Mulligan and his overseas partner, produced a small number of neonates from just such a breeding. They actually have TWELVE variations of dione, many of which will be on display in Florida. Many of these phases have never been seen in this country before including one Russian locality phase that is in the process of brand new subspecific classification. There is also one
VERY SPECIAL pair, the first of its type coloration ever seen in America and perhaps anywhere else in the world. This pair will not be sold but I will probably post photos of them relatively soon. The particular pair that I write of now is of Russian origin (separate locale from the exciting new phase mentioned earlier). Just wetting your whistle, but this is all exciting new ground.

Walt Deptula

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Re: Is there a mutation going on? Terry 08/01/00 (0)

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: : : : : : That's interesting, Terry. Did the same pairing produce this season? : : Yes. But the eggs haven't hatched yet. : : Do/did any other neonates exhibit that coloration? : : One of the neonates had more and brighter colored yellow than the rest. It is almost a year old now. The brightness is fading a little though. : : Are your diones gold colored in their normal state? : : I wouldn't call them gold colored, but a washed out yellow most of the time. The Central Chinese dione have more yellow than any other dione location that I know of. They also have a wider mid-dorsal stripe. The yellow sometimes becomes brighter, and I think bright yellow individuals will eventually be bred. : : I am not certain that there exists any correlation betwen the two circumstances other than coincidence. In fact, I doubt it, but who knows. This particular mandarina was totally unique from her clutchmates in this regard. Right to the venter she was completely yellow. Two other hatchlings had a noticable yellow wash, but "normal" ground coloration was still apparent in these individuals. Needless to say, I'm excited about repeating this breeding next season. A completely yellow mandarina (aside from the normal black diamonds) would be a shocking animal, in part, because it differs so from the norm, but doesn't dilute the essence of the animal like a amelanistic mutation might. The contrast between black and yellow would be extreme. Hell, the dead, frozen baby is still shocking to examine. Furthermore, Terry, I would have absolutely no idea what trait could explain the total ground color makeover of this dead-in- egg mandarina. To my knowledge, none would. : : : Walt : : : : I'm getting excited too, Walt. The more I think about it. It really would be a stunning animal. At first I was just taken by the idea of the yellow taking over and becoming the ground color. That means the loss of the normal ground color. I've seen other animals where that appears to be happening. I had a Butler's garter one time where the orange-yellow color was taking over and becoming the ground color. I was very young and ended up letting it go. But thinking back, I think there was a mutation going on there. I don't think it was amelanism, but some mutation that has to do with the dominance of the ground color. It might also have to do with the loss of the normal ground, like an albino's loss of black, thus a mutation. Who knows? Like you I'd like to know more about this, and will continue working with the Chinese dione to try to produce this again. : : I'm anxious to see your picture, Walt. Keep us posted. Thanks. : : TC : Hi Terry, : Very nice looking animal. Bright yellow Central China Diones have been bred THIS season (brighter than anything seen here previously). Bill Mulligan and his overseas partner, produced a small number of neonates from just such a breeding. They actually have TWELVE variations of dione, many of which will be on display in Florida. Many of these phases have never been seen in this country before including one Russian locality phase that is in the process of brand new subspecific classification. There is also one : VERY SPECIAL pair, the first of its type coloration ever seen in America and perhaps anywhere else in the world. This pair will not be sold but I will probably post photos of them relatively soon. The particular pair that I write of now is of Russian origin (separate locale from the exciting new phase mentioned earlier). Just wetting your whistle, but this is all exciting new ground. : Walt Deptula :

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