Re: Factory or hobby??????

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Posted by Andrew G on March 19, 2000 at 22:12:28:

In Reply to: Re: Factory or hobby?????? posted by blk rat on March 19, 2000 at 19:12:22:

: : Hi there
: : Do I see a major difference in keeping ratsnakes on each side of the pond or what is happening here?
: : After 33 years wihtin the hobby of keeping and breeding reptiles, I have slowly managed to buy better and more uncommon reptiles after selling some of the offspring. I enjoy the learning experience of how to get the perfect and natural conditions and use many hours reading and asking and see the result in perfect babies and getting old (very old) productive animals.
: : Sometimes it is possible to improve the natural conditions,
: : BUT WHY?
: : Producing 3-4 clutches of eggs a year on a female is very hard on a female, and it is not natural.Raising babies to maturity in a year is not natural too. Seeking out strange color variations and inbreed them is certainly not natural.
: : WHY DO WE KEEP THESE ANIMALS????????
: : I can understand that there are a few people that is making a living of breeding reptiles and they multiply their animals in shoeboxes in order to make as much money as possible, but the hobbyist should feel themself better than that.
: : We are dealing with living animals not a part of a machine.
: : On this side of the pond (Europe)it is still considered normal and desired to try making an natural invoroment and try to make yearly rythm for your animals.
: : Yes we do make fewer babies (lesser money...perhaps)but our animals gives great pleasure every day showing themself in their "natural" habitat.
: : Why hurry. My oldest Elaphe mandarina is more than 25 years old now,and she is gravid again like she have been each year since 1990. She gets her 3-4 month of hibernation, and pleasures me with a single clutch of nice fertile eggs every year.
: : I know that some people will be on a defensive alert now. Yes just kick back. I don`t care. I just hope that one or two people would start thinking a little on the question
: : WHY DO I HAVE MY ANIMALS!
: : Best wishes
: : S�e

: I am interested in knowing if more people in Europe keep specific wild type cultivars. For example, I would like to have a complete collection of Elaphe obsoleta incuding barely recognised forms like deckerti, parallela?, and williamsi. These forms are rarely availabe yet important local varients of E obsolta. I would like to know if in Europe, you have the sort of locality mentality found in Greybanded and Rosy boa people here? PS I agree whole heartedly with the conservation ideas expressed on this topic but, habitat protection is usually much more effective than captive breeding. Maybe we could take some of the money made from breeding Dayglow Nuclear Green Chenobyl Corns to protect habitat.

I can't speak for Mr. Pedersen, but alterna are not widely locality bred in Europe - from what I understand. This is a great discussion, thanks for the brain food!

Andrew

Western Serpent Specialties

Follow Ups:

Re: Answer Pedersen,S�e 03/20/00 (3)
- Re: Answer Greeri 03/21/00 (2)
  - Re: Answer Andrew G 03/21/00 (1)
    - Re: Answer Greeri 03/21/00 (0)

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: : : Hi there : : : Do I see a major difference in keeping ratsnakes on each side of the pond or what is happening here? : : : After 33 years wihtin the hobby of keeping and breeding reptiles, I have slowly managed to buy better and more uncommon reptiles after selling some of the offspring. I enjoy the learning experience of how to get the perfect and natural conditions and use many hours reading and asking and see the result in perfect babies and getting old (very old) productive animals. : : : Sometimes it is possible to improve the natural conditions, : : : BUT WHY? : : : Producing 3-4 clutches of eggs a year on a female is very hard on a female, and it is not natural.Raising babies to maturity in a year is not natural too. Seeking out strange color variations and inbreed them is certainly not natural. : : : WHY DO WE KEEP THESE ANIMALS???????? : : : I can understand that there are a few people that is making a living of breeding reptiles and they multiply their animals in shoeboxes in order to make as much money as possible, but the hobbyist should feel themself better than that. : : : We are dealing with living animals not a part of a machine. : : : On this side of the pond (Europe)it is still considered normal and desired to try making an natural invoroment and try to make yearly rythm for your animals. : : : Yes we do make fewer babies (lesser money...perhaps)but our animals gives great pleasure every day showing themself in their "natural" habitat. : : : Why hurry. My oldest Elaphe mandarina is more than 25 years old now,and she is gravid again like she have been each year since 1990. She gets her 3-4 month of hibernation, and pleasures me with a single clutch of nice fertile eggs every year. : : : I know that some people will be on a defensive alert now. Yes just kick back. I don`t care. I just hope that one or two people would start thinking a little on the question : : : WHY DO I HAVE MY ANIMALS! : : : Best wishes : : : S�e : : I am interested in knowing if more people in Europe keep specific wild type cultivars. For example, I would like to have a complete collection of Elaphe obsoleta incuding barely recognised forms like deckerti, parallela?, and williamsi. These forms are rarely availabe yet important local varients of E obsolta. I would like to know if in Europe, you have the sort of locality mentality found in Greybanded and Rosy boa people here? PS I agree whole heartedly with the conservation ideas expressed on this topic but, habitat protection is usually much more effective than captive breeding. Maybe we could take some of the money made from breeding Dayglow Nuclear Green Chenobyl Corns to protect habitat. : I can't speak for Mr. Pedersen, but alterna are not widely locality bred in Europe - from what I understand. This is a great discussion, thanks for the brain food! : Andrew

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