Re: Factory or hobby??????

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Posted by Dave T on March 18, 2000 at 05:20:12:

In Reply to: Factory or hobby?????? posted by Pedersen,S�e on March 18, 2000 at 02:50:32:

I agree with you that unnaturally forcing or encouraging females into multiple clutches year after year is perhaps a cruelty to the animal, and that it may be motivated more by greed than by fondness for the animal. I also agree with you that crossing and backcrossing with repeated inbreeding to produce strange unnatural morphologies seems to be a bizarre preoccupation with many breeders. A lot of interesting results occur, but are they any "better" than the natural colours and patterns that occur? My usual response to a lot of them is that they just look like Frankensteinian freaks. Compared to these weird colours and patterns, in my opinion, natural morphologies are usually a lot more attractive. Repeated inbreeding also produces weaker animals over periods of time. Thanks for your posting.

Hi there
: Do I see a major difference in keeping ratsnakes on each side of the pond or what is happening here?
: After 33 years wihtin the hobby of keeping and breeding reptiles, I have slowly managed to buy better and more uncommon reptiles after selling some of the offspring. I enjoy the learning experience of how to get the perfect and natural conditions and use many hours reading and asking and see the result in perfect babies and getting old (very old) productive animals.
: Sometimes it is possible to improve the natural conditions,
: BUT WHY?
: Producing 3-4 clutches of eggs a year on a female is very hard on a female, and it is not natural.Raising babies to maturity in a year is not natural too. Seeking out strange color variations and inbreed them is certainly not natural.
: WHY DO WE KEEP THESE ANIMALS????????
: I can understand that there are a few people that is making a living of breeding reptiles and they multiply their animals in shoeboxes in order to make as much money as possible, but the hobbyist should feel themself better than that.
: We are dealing with living animals not a part of a machine.
: On this side of the pond (Europe)it is still considered normal and desired to try making an natural invoroment and try to make yearly rythm for your animals.
: Yes we do make fewer babies (lesser money...perhaps)but our animals gives great pleasure every day showing themself in their "natural" habitat.
: Why hurry. My oldest Elaphe mandarina is more than 25 years old now,and she is gravid again like she have been each year since 1990. She gets her 3-4 month of hibernation, and pleasures me with a single clutch of nice fertile eggs every year.
: I know that some people will be on a defensive alert now. Yes just kick back. I don`t care. I just hope that one or two people would start thinking a little on the question
: WHY DO I HAVE MY ANIMALS!
: Best wishes
: S�e

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: I agree with you that unnaturally forcing or encouraging females into multiple clutches year after year is perhaps a cruelty to the animal, and that it may be motivated more by greed than by fondness for the animal. I also agree with you that crossing and backcrossing with repeated inbreeding to produce strange unnatural morphologies seems to be a bizarre preoccupation with many breeders. A lot of interesting results occur, but are they any "better" than the natural colours and patterns that occur? My usual response to a lot of them is that they just look like Frankensteinian freaks. Compared to these weird colours and patterns, in my opinion, natural morphologies are usually a lot more attractive. Repeated inbreeding also produces weaker animals over periods of time. Thanks for your posting. : Hi there : : Do I see a major difference in keeping ratsnakes on each side of the pond or what is happening here? : : After 33 years wihtin the hobby of keeping and breeding reptiles, I have slowly managed to buy better and more uncommon reptiles after selling some of the offspring. I enjoy the learning experience of how to get the perfect and natural conditions and use many hours reading and asking and see the result in perfect babies and getting old (very old) productive animals. : : Sometimes it is possible to improve the natural conditions, : : BUT WHY? : : Producing 3-4 clutches of eggs a year on a female is very hard on a female, and it is not natural.Raising babies to maturity in a year is not natural too. Seeking out strange color variations and inbreed them is certainly not natural. : : WHY DO WE KEEP THESE ANIMALS???????? : : I can understand that there are a few people that is making a living of breeding reptiles and they multiply their animals in shoeboxes in order to make as much money as possible, but the hobbyist should feel themself better than that. : : We are dealing with living animals not a part of a machine. : : On this side of the pond (Europe)it is still considered normal and desired to try making an natural invoroment and try to make yearly rythm for your animals. : : Yes we do make fewer babies (lesser money...perhaps)but our animals gives great pleasure every day showing themself in their "natural" habitat. : : Why hurry. My oldest Elaphe mandarina is more than 25 years old now,and she is gravid again like she have been each year since 1990. She gets her 3-4 month of hibernation, and pleasures me with a single clutch of nice fertile eggs every year. : : I know that some people will be on a defensive alert now. Yes just kick back. I don`t care. I just hope that one or two people would start thinking a little on the question : : WHY DO I HAVE MY ANIMALS! : : Best wishes : : S�e

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