Re: Aesculapian Snakes...

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Posted by tmc on February 07, 2000 at 18:22:19:

In Reply to: Re: Aesculapian Snakes... posted by Phil on February 06, 2000 at 21:58:34:

Hi Phil,

Well I guess I opened a can of worms to some extent on this one. I hope this doesn't get too complicated because then it would probably be better off on the Taxonomy Forum. Remember that I'm just an amateur snake keeper and herpetologist and I'm just voicing my opinion on this group that I like a lot.

Remembering my limited experience I believe that the European elaphe have some problems. I believe it is generally accepted in Europe that the four main species; longissima, quatuorlineata, scalaris, and situla are closely related species in the Elaphe genus. My problem is that I don't think longissima has evolved along with any of the other three. I think longissima along with persica (and possibly hodgsoni) in a close group have evolved from the South Asian Elaphe in a completely separate line from the other Eurasian ratsnakes. The tropical Asian ratsnakes (Elaphe) could have given rise to the longissima-persica-(hodgsoni?) complex just as easily as they could have given rise to the taeniura-moellendorffi complex. My reasoning is based on observation of the various species. I believe longissima-persica closely resemble taeniura in morphology and behavior and although they are somewhat distantly removed they have common ancestors from the South Asian Elaphe either past or present.

Probably not many will agree with me but I'm hoping even a controversy will inspire us to sort out this genus and put together something that makes more sense. I hope my arguments are logical enough that you can see where I'm coming from.

By the way, Soe, I think when I said I had a Russian and Chinese in the previous post you thought I meant longissima, but I meant E. s. schrencki (Russian) and E. bimaculata (Chinese). Sorry.

Thanks for the response Phil. I am enjoying this discussion. I have never talked about taxonomic relationships before to anyone. I hope this is "ok" material for this forum and I hope to hear from you again and other people. Until later then, Terry.

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: Hi Phil, : Well I guess I opened a can of worms to some extent on this one. I hope this doesn't get too complicated because then it would probably be better off on the Taxonomy Forum. Remember that I'm just an amateur snake keeper and herpetologist and I'm just voicing my opinion on this group that I like a lot. : Remembering my limited experience I believe that the European elaphe have some problems. I believe it is generally accepted in Europe that the four main species; longissima, quatuorlineata, scalaris, and situla are closely related species in the Elaphe genus. My problem is that I don't think longissima has evolved along with any of the other three. I think longissima along with persica (and possibly hodgsoni) in a close group have evolved from the South Asian Elaphe in a completely separate line from the other Eurasian ratsnakes. The tropical Asian ratsnakes (Elaphe) could have given rise to the longissima-persica-(hodgsoni?) complex just as easily as they could have given rise to the taeniura-moellendorffi complex. My reasoning is based on observation of the various species. I believe longissima-persica closely resemble taeniura in morphology and behavior and although they are somewhat distantly removed they have common ancestors from the South Asian Elaphe either past or present. : Probably not many will agree with me but I'm hoping even a controversy will inspire us to sort out this genus and put together something that makes more sense. I hope my arguments are logical enough that you can see where I'm coming from. : By the way, Soe, I think when I said I had a Russian and Chinese in the previous post you thought I meant longissima, but I meant E. s. schrencki (Russian) and E. bimaculata (Chinese). Sorry. : Thanks for the response Phil. I am enjoying this discussion. I have never talked about taxonomic relationships before to anyone. I hope this is "ok" material for this forum and I hope to hear from you again and other people. Until later then, Terry.

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