Interesting you should ask that....(long response)

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Posted by Terry Cox on June 29, 2002 at 08:44:44:

In Reply to: Leopard rats... posted by Dean Alessandrini on June 29, 2002 at 06:17:27:

Let me get my soap box out, haha :O)

For many years hobbyists tried to get beautiful snakes, such as Elaphe moellendorffi (red-headed rat), mandarina, and situla (leopard rats) to live in captivity, let alone breed. Most people were afraid to try. It was a waste of money because they died so fast. Then we discovered that captive raised snakes would fair quite well. But only the enthusiasts with enough money and confidence in their abilities would dare take the challenge. In other words, the snakes have a bad rap, they tend to be too expensive for the average hobbyist, and there's several other reasons we could delve into.

If you'd like we could pursue these in more depth. I think there's a variety of factors holding the Old World ratsnakes back. I just love them to death, and the fact that they're exotic makes it all the better. They make great pets much of the time, but some have the stigma of being too difficult to raise or breed. Some tend to be too shy, but not leopards, and some are nocturnal, again not leopards. One thing the big breeders don't like is that many, especially Eurasians, have very small clutches of eggs. Leopards only average about three to six eggs/clutch.

Another reason which I've been addressing on this forum for several years now is the fact that we don't educate the public enough about captive husbandry, etc. Yesterday, Glenn and Nancy did a post on how to keep the Asian, longnose, green ratsnake (Rhyncophis?) We need more of that. But we need to do it with the public too, not just on this forum where mostly only ratsnake enthusiasts share info. The ave. person won't buy a snake they don't know anything about and has no popularity. First thing they will do is ask for info, and if we are unwilling to share what we know, we won't be getting many sales or repeat customers.

One more thing...have you gone to any herp shows lately? What sells? Bearded dragons, corn snakes, Cali. kings, ball pythons. Come on. How many of us have seen a leopard rat at a herp show this year? At Indianapolis last weekend I saw one Old World Elaphe period, a Mandarin rat. These guys might sell at Daytona, but the Joe off the street isn't going to invest $200 - $500 in a snake, just because it's pretty. Kings and corns, for $15 - $30, are pretty, and easy to care for, are popular, have books written about them, and can be used to socialize with.

I know there's several forum visitors that breed leopard rats. I trust these guys and their husbandry. They have good stock and you'll get a fair price. Knowing the breeders on this forum is the way to go to buy your stock if you want to get Old World Elaphe. Even then, I had to wait about two and a half years to get my stock from two different breeders. I doubt they're going to show up at a reptile show with their leopard rats to sell. Believe me, if I had 'em now, they'd all be spoken for with deposits. I get calls all the time for all these exotics.

First we have to start producing the snakes, then find a way to get them to the public, educate the public, and the price needs to be affordable, or the only people to have these great snakes are the truly dedicated enthusiasts. I have leopard rats and they aren't any more difficult to keep then my dione or bimaculatas. They are beautiful and make decent pets. Someday they'll be more popular with the average herper, maybe!? :0)

TC/Ratsnake Haven

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thanks for the info... Dean Alessandrini 06/29/02 (0)

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: Let me get my soap box out, haha :O) : For many years hobbyists tried to get beautiful snakes, such as Elaphe moellendorffi (red-headed rat), mandarina, and situla (leopard rats) to live in captivity, let alone breed. Most people were afraid to try. It was a waste of money because they died so fast. Then we discovered that captive raised snakes would fair quite well. But only the enthusiasts with enough money and confidence in their abilities would dare take the challenge. In other words, the snakes have a bad rap, they tend to be too expensive for the average hobbyist, and there's several other reasons we could delve into. : If you'd like we could pursue these in more depth. I think there's a variety of factors holding the Old World ratsnakes back. I just love them to death, and the fact that they're exotic makes it all the better. They make great pets much of the time, but some have the stigma of being too difficult to raise or breed. Some tend to be too shy, but not leopards, and some are nocturnal, again not leopards. One thing the big breeders don't like is that many, especially Eurasians, have very small clutches of eggs. Leopards only average about three to six eggs/clutch. : Another reason which I've been addressing on this forum for several years now is the fact that we don't educate the public enough about captive husbandry, etc. Yesterday, Glenn and Nancy did a post on how to keep the Asian, longnose, green ratsnake (Rhyncophis?) We need more of that. But we need to do it with the public too, not just on this forum where mostly only ratsnake enthusiasts share info. The ave. person won't buy a snake they don't know anything about and has no popularity. First thing they will do is ask for info, and if we are unwilling to share what we know, we won't be getting many sales or repeat customers. : One more thing...have you gone to any herp shows lately? What sells? Bearded dragons, corn snakes, Cali. kings, ball pythons. Come on. How many of us have seen a leopard rat at a herp show this year? At Indianapolis last weekend I saw one Old World Elaphe period, a Mandarin rat. These guys might sell at Daytona, but the Joe off the street isn't going to invest $200 - $500 in a snake, just because it's pretty. Kings and corns, for $15 - $30, are pretty, and easy to care for, are popular, have books written about them, and can be used to socialize with. : I know there's several forum visitors that breed leopard rats. I trust these guys and their husbandry. They have good stock and you'll get a fair price. Knowing the breeders on this forum is the way to go to buy your stock if you want to get Old World Elaphe. Even then, I had to wait about two and a half years to get my stock from two different breeders. I doubt they're going to show up at a reptile show with their leopard rats to sell. Believe me, if I had 'em now, they'd all be spoken for with deposits. I get calls all the time for all these exotics. : First we have to start producing the snakes, then find a way to get them to the public, educate the public, and the price needs to be affordable, or the only people to have these great snakes are the truly dedicated enthusiasts. I have leopard rats and they aren't any more difficult to keep then my dione or bimaculatas. They are beautiful and make decent pets. Someday they'll be more popular with the average herper, maybe!? :0) : <center><img src="http://gallery.kingsnake.com/data/865LeopardRat,spottedjuvy1.jpg"></center>

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