You've misunderstood me, KJ...

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Posted by Gerry Binczik on May 28, 2002 at 09:04:19:

In Reply to: Re: Why not encourage people to try and find out... posted by KJ on May 28, 2002 at 06:48:24:

>> ... rather than think up excuses not to try?

> Not what I was doing...

I believe you when you say that is not your intent, but I strongly suspect that is the effect you might have, regardless. I wrote urging the author of the original post and anyone else who saw the program to take whatever action could be taken by them. You responded by essentially saying they would accomplish nothing. Why? What good does such a post do anything or anyone? If you wrote what you did because you're feeling a bit frazzled and hopeless in your own efforts on behalf of wildlife, I certainly understand; I, too, was a wildlife conservation professional for several years, and I hope to be again soon when I finish my doctorate. Like you, I have suffered plenty of pessimism from knowing too much. But in my opinion it's best to try to keep such pessimism to oneself (or at least temper it to some productive end), because many people WILL use messages such as yours as an excuse not to even try. Far better to promote the idea of people getting involved beyond merely complaining about a problem to people of similar minds, even if that involvement has a low probability of success.

> What I was doing was just stating that I won't form an opinion without proof...

Ok, but just FYI you should realize that's not how I took your post at all. I understood you to be saying "nothing anyone can do will do any good, so don't bother". That is also how I have taken some of the things you said in your most recent post (see below).

Also, if you look back you'll see I never suggested that someone who hadn't seen the show get involved in filing complaints, writing letters, whatever. I always phrased what I said as "If I had seen it..." or "If it were me..." Like you, I didn't see it, or I would now be personally pursuing whatever action I could think of rather than merely encouraging those who had to do so.

> ... I was good friends with two of my old university professors who were at a court case to prove that chickens WERE animals under the cruelty to animal laws. However, their side lost (I don't know if the supported chicken fighting or not, but they did try to prove that chickens were animals) and chicken fights are legal.

Shocking and shameful for LA! I'm very sorry to hear this, and very much hope they are the rare exception.

>> television show's producers might be concerned enough about the possibility of liability and losing viewers that they would think twice before airing such barbarism again.

> This is exactly my point...

I'm afraid I somehow missed where you made this point. Are you sure you did?

> ... I can't even contact their advertisers and complain because I don't watch the show? The only other option available to me would be to lie about my previous watching habits -- which I would never do.

Nor would I ever encourage you or anyone else to do so (see above).

> ... you aren't going to get any laws passed to protect snakes from that man with a shovel. Heck, they ones they have protecting endangered venomous snakes - or lokk-alikes -- aren't even enforced much. Too many people think that "the only good snake is a dead snake" today. If the peace officer and/or judge feels that way, little to no citations will be written or prosecuted. Agreed?

I agree that the odds are stacked against herps and other wildlife held in little regard. But I don't see what good it does anything or anyone to pessimistically declare "this is just the way it is", and I see more than a little potential for harm in such statements, especially when they come from a wildlife professional. As I said before...

>> The one thing we CAN be sure of: If the people who care most do nothing, nothing will be done.

I know in our hearts we're on the same side, KJ. All I'm suggesting is that you promote action, or at least take care not to promote inaction.

Peace,

Gerry

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: >> ... rather than think up excuses not to try? : > Not what I was doing... : I believe you when you say that is not your intent, but I strongly suspect that is the effect you might have, regardless. I wrote urging the author of the original post and anyone else who saw the program to take whatever action could be taken by them. You responded by essentially saying they would accomplish nothing. Why? What good does such a post do anything or anyone? If you wrote what you did because you're feeling a bit frazzled and hopeless in your own efforts on behalf of wildlife, I certainly understand; I, too, was a wildlife conservation professional for several years, and I hope to be again soon when I finish my doctorate. Like you, I have suffered plenty of pessimism from knowing too much. But in my opinion it's best to try to keep such pessimism to oneself (or at least temper it to some productive end), because many people WILL use messages such as yours as an excuse not to even try. Far better to promote the idea of people getting involved beyond merely complaining about a problem to people of similar minds, even if that involvement has a low probability of success. : > What I was doing was just stating that I won't form an opinion without proof... : Ok, but just FYI you should realize that's not how I took your post at all. I understood you to be saying "nothing anyone can do will do any good, so don't bother". That is also how I have taken some of the things you said in your most recent post (see below). : Also, if you look back you'll see I never suggested that someone who hadn't seen the show get involved in filing complaints, writing letters, whatever. I always phrased what I said as "If I had seen it..." or "If it were me..." Like you, I didn't see it, or I would now be personally pursuing whatever action I could think of rather than merely encouraging those who had to do so. : > ... I was good friends with two of my old university professors who were at a court case to prove that chickens WERE animals under the cruelty to animal laws. However, their side lost (I don't know if the supported chicken fighting or not, but they did try to prove that chickens were animals) and chicken fights are legal. : Shocking and shameful for LA! I'm very sorry to hear this, and very much hope they are the rare exception. : >> television show's producers might be concerned enough about the possibility of liability and losing viewers that they would think twice before airing such barbarism again. : > This is exactly my point... : I'm afraid I somehow missed where you made this point. Are you sure you did? : > ... I can't even contact their advertisers and complain because I don't watch the show? The only other option available to me would be to lie about my previous watching habits -- which I would never do. : Nor would I ever encourage you or anyone else to do so (see above). : > ... you aren't going to get any laws passed to protect snakes from that man with a shovel. Heck, they ones they have protecting endangered venomous snakes - or lokk-alikes -- aren't even enforced much. Too many people think that "the only good snake is a dead snake" today. If the peace officer and/or judge feels that way, little to no citations will be written or prosecuted. Agreed? : I agree that the odds are stacked against herps and other wildlife held in little regard. But I don't see what good it does anything or anyone to pessimistically declare "this is just the way it is", and I see more than a little potential for harm in such statements, especially when they come from a wildlife professional. As I said before... : >> The one thing we CAN be sure of: If the people who care most do nothing, nothing will be done. : I know in our hearts we're on the same side, KJ. All I'm suggesting is that you promote action, or at least take care not to promote inaction. : Peace, : Gerry

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