A.C. / Danny Mendez (ssp?)...In regards "to uniformed NJHS"

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Posted by Frank Roberts on May 10, 2002 at 00:14:02:

You do not support the society? Maybe you should move to NY where they make you get rid of your snakes if them become illegal, Also it is not so easy to get an endangered species permit, as a matter a fact, almost impossible, that particular criteria is hard to meet, you do have the advantage of being a college student, get a professor to write up the reports etc...and a legit reason besides breeding to have them, Some type of scientific study would work, it must add to the scientific knowledge on the species involved and be a valid contribution. Also ANY corn snake that does not have red eyes is considered illegal, I know someone who was fined 1500.00 per snake and also had to give the snakes to the Staten island zoo. I also have Northern Pine snakes, as a matter a fact I have eggs incubating right now, they adults are on my permit, but I can not sell the neonates in the state because it's illegal, unless I get a another permit to do so. They said I can however sell them out of state with just a regular hobbyist permit. I am a hobbyist not a commercial breeder. I, like you, always call the state themselves for any questions I have, smart approach, and I don't keep anything illegal so I don't have to worry about them (NJ F&W). Monica is who I contact also, she has recently stated that anacondas are illegal as of Jan 1 2002, if permitted before this date, they are legal, those specimens permitted (no others) can be kept you can not replace/switched out etc.. As for not supporting the society cause you think it should be cheaper, you want indigo's? 600.00 snake? But won't support the only society that even attempts to fight for your rights in any way? also sometimes I rather not see people think they can keep Northern's, they may be tempted to collect them from the wild. Mine are captive breed documented specimens. I also have 2 yellow anacondas permitted by the state. Endangered species permits require a visit from the state, quarterly reports and a legit reason besides breeding to acquire them. The State in my opinion is great. I also like you always contact the division to get my questions answered. Monica is not the final authority however, she does know the rules however, and has questioned her supervisor on some of my inquiries, she's great! So if you sell the yellow anaconda you have, you can not replace it legally with another one, you would have to now meet the potentially dangerous species requirements for issuance of a new permit type. Also involving an inspection of your facilities, etc.. This permit is much easier to obtain than the endangered species permit. But if Pine snakes become endangered they also will be harder to obtain, I would say get some captive stock permitted now, they live along time if properly cared for, mine are almost 10 years old and still thriving.

Danny, I am a member of the society and never attend any meetings, I work 6 days a week and odd hours and live pretty far away also, but this year I will become a life member as did my friend John Rodriguez, he just renewed and I talked him into the life membership before hand, AC that's 150 dollars well spent and mine also will be 150.00, 300.00 cash for the cause of the society is a pittance of cash and won't do much for our cause, but at the very least I can feel like I tried to help instead of quibbling over a few dollars, I have been keeping reptiles and amphibians for over 25 years and also support the state, I donate from my State Tax between 50.00 and 100.00 to the Endangered Species program, which is also worth supporting.(I don't miss the money in this form of donation) I am by no means rich either. Talk is cheap, money is needed to feed these causes. I wish I could make the time to go to the meetings. But I do pay my dues so to speak. I am a member of this society and am very up to date on our laws, I didn't even correct Robert on those issues, because I could imagine people "raping" the NJ Pine Lands, which if they catch you is a heavy fine, NJ is great if you are following the rules, if not, THEY WILL SLAM YOU. I just follow the rules and always get what I want, then again I don't support keeping venomous species in the private sector and let's face it Anacondas are potentially dangerous and so are crocodilians, hey but at least if you already have them they grandfather them, NY takes them away and will even kill them as evidence and put them in a freezer, talk about hypocrisy. I do think if you read the criteria for the endangered species and meet the criteria you could get that permit, use your college while you can and get your monies worth, get the book "Herpetology", find some Herp studies that you could possibly add to involving the species you want to keep and get a biology professor to back you. So AC you may be able to get that permit if approached properly. It not that easy however. Good Luck! Keep Herping! Hey and JOIN the society even if you can't attend meetings, you then also can say do did everything you could to Help our cause.

Let's Not Fight!!
Fight the GOOD FIGHT!!
Always contact the NJF&W for proper info and guidance. AC just be sure to keep your reciepts and the state will not give you any problems, as you have already figured out!!
Obey the law, NJ isn't as bad as some people make it out to be. But I like the laws now But if they BANNED all Pythons and Boas like NY just did that would be unfair, so we do need a voice and the contributions to support the voice as well!

didn't spell chech ADJUST!!!

Another thing AC for the Corn Snakes, I would try a study that would compile information on ways to help the NJ endangered population, you have a brain USE IT WISELY, You have the ability to meet that criteria and the people that can help you at your disposal. Talk to a professor and se what you can come up with, relate it to adding info to previos studies, find out if any studies where done on the NJ population and build off of that!! You can ge twhat you want, you will have to work for it.

Once again Good Luck!! And Hit the books and become one of the few that have met that criteria, you apy for colledge you may as well get your monies worth!!

Frank Roberts

Follow Ups:

Also try to make a scientific webpage like..."Grade A Reptile Research" =) No Post Frank Roberts 05/10/02 (5)
- AC check out these links... Frank Roberts 05/10/02 (4)
  - Info found for AC, here are a few documented studies.... Frank Roberts 05/10/02 (3)
    - Thanks for info, Frank A.C. 05/10/02 (2)
      - I would be interested in any studies thanks AC n/p Frank Roberts 05/10/02 (0)
      - Re: Thanks for info, Frank Frank Roberts 05/10/02 (0)

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: You do not support the society? Maybe you should move to NY where they make you get rid of your snakes if them become illegal, Also it is not so easy to get an endangered species permit, as a matter a fact, almost impossible, that particular criteria is hard to meet, you do have the advantage of being a college student, get a professor to write up the reports etc...and a legit reason besides breeding to have them, Some type of scientific study would work, it must add to the scientific knowledge on the species involved and be a valid contribution. Also ANY corn snake that does not have red eyes is considered illegal, I know someone who was fined 1500.00 per snake and also had to give the snakes to the Staten island zoo. I also have Northern Pine snakes, as a matter a fact I have eggs incubating right now, they adults are on my permit, but I can not sell the neonates in the state because it's illegal, unless I get a another permit to do so. They said I can however sell them out of state with just a regular hobbyist permit. I am a hobbyist not a commercial breeder. I, like you, always call the state themselves for any questions I have, smart approach, and I don't keep anything illegal so I don't have to worry about them (NJ F&W). Monica is who I contact also, she has recently stated that anacondas are illegal as of Jan 1 2002, if permitted before this date, they are legal, those specimens permitted (no others) can be kept you can not replace/switched out etc.. As for not supporting the society cause you think it should be cheaper, you want indigo's? 600.00 snake? But won't support the only society that even attempts to fight for your rights in any way? also sometimes I rather not see people think they can keep Northern's, they may be tempted to collect them from the wild. Mine are captive breed documented specimens. I also have 2 yellow anacondas permitted by the state. Endangered species permits require a visit from the state, quarterly reports and a legit reason besides breeding to acquire them. The State in my opinion is great. I also like you always contact the division to get my questions answered. Monica is not the final authority however, she does know the rules however, and has questioned her supervisor on some of my inquiries, she's great! So if you sell the yellow anaconda you have, you can not replace it legally with another one, you would have to now meet the potentially dangerous species requirements for issuance of a new permit type. Also involving an inspection of your facilities, etc.. This permit is much easier to obtain than the endangered species permit. But if Pine snakes become endangered they also will be harder to obtain, I would say get some captive stock permitted now, they live along time if properly cared for, mine are almost 10 years old and still thriving. : Danny, I am a member of the society and never attend any meetings, I work 6 days a week and odd hours and live pretty far away also, but this year I will become a life member as did my friend John Rodriguez, he just renewed and I talked him into the life membership before hand, AC that's 150 dollars well spent and mine also will be 150.00, 300.00 cash for the cause of the society is a pittance of cash and won't do much for our cause, but at the very least I can feel like I tried to help instead of quibbling over a few dollars, I have been keeping reptiles and amphibians for over 25 years and also support the state, I donate from my State Tax between 50.00 and 100.00 to the Endangered Species program, which is also worth supporting.(I don't miss the money in this form of donation) I am by no means rich either. Talk is cheap, money is needed to feed these causes. I wish I could make the time to go to the meetings. But I do pay my dues so to speak. I am a member of this society and am very up to date on our laws, I didn't even correct Robert on those issues, because I could imagine people "raping" the NJ Pine Lands, which if they catch you is a heavy fine, NJ is great if you are following the rules, if not, THEY WILL SLAM YOU. I just follow the rules and always get what I want, then again I don't support keeping venomous species in the private sector and let's face it Anacondas are potentially dangerous and so are crocodilians, hey but at least if you already have them they grandfather them, NY takes them away and will even kill them as evidence and put them in a freezer, talk about hypocrisy. I do think if you read the criteria for the endangered species and meet the criteria you could get that permit, use your college while you can and get your monies worth, get the book "Herpetology", find some Herp studies that you could possibly add to involving the species you want to keep and get a biology professor to back you. So AC you may be able to get that permit if approached properly. It not that easy however. Good Luck! Keep Herping! Hey and JOIN the society even if you can't attend meetings, you then also can say do did everything you could to Help our cause. : Let's Not Fight!! : Fight the GOOD FIGHT!! : Always contact the NJF&W for proper info and guidance. AC just be sure to keep your reciepts and the state will not give you any problems, as you have already figured out!! : Obey the law, NJ isn't as bad as some people make it out to be. But I like the laws now But if they BANNED all Pythons and Boas like NY just did that would be unfair, so we do need a voice and the contributions to support the voice as well! : didn't spell chech ADJUST!!! : Another thing AC for the Corn Snakes, I would try a study that would compile information on ways to help the NJ endangered population, you have a brain USE IT WISELY, You have the ability to meet that criteria and the people that can help you at your disposal. Talk to a professor and se what you can come up with, relate it to adding info to previos studies, find out if any studies where done on the NJ population and build off of that!! You can ge twhat you want, you will have to work for it. : Once again Good Luck!! And Hit the books and become one of the few that have met that criteria, you apy for colledge you may as well get your monies worth!! : Frank Roberts

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