bloating, cat fish, and water quality

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Posted by EdK on November 09, 2001 at 06:49:53:

In Reply to: Pleurodeles walt and fish.... posted by Al on November 08, 2001 at 16:45:27:

: I tried to cut feeding expenses and started using feeder fish (rosies) for my Spanish Ribbed newts.
: I lost 3-4 newts from bloat or disease. The only source that I could trace this to is the feeder fish. I also tried to all coley cats (fish) to eat the left over waste in my pleurodele tank. My reasoning was to keep a well balance tank and decrease need for water changes (these newts are big eater and poopers). By day 2, I noticed one of my breeding females had eaten one of the fish...but it got stuck in her mouth. Most fish have sharp fins.

Okay here is one of the big misconceptions you see in dealing with aquaria.
Having some type of scavenger in the aquarium does not keep the aquarium "cleaner" in such a fashion that water changes have been decreased.
There are several reasons for water changes and one of these is to take care of the wastes produced by the inhabitants of the aquarium.
The majority of aqautic animals release waste in the form of ammonia. There is also solid wate from the consumed food items. If there is an established biological filter then the ammonia is converted to nitrous acid to nitric acid (nitrite to nitrate to you fish people). There is a gradual reduction in pH combined with a rise in nitrate. There is still speculation on toxicity in caudates but in sensitive fish high nitrate levels can lead to debilitation and eventual death. High levels of pollutants in the water column such as a spike in ammonia and nitrite caused by the temporary overwhelming of the biological filter bed in the tank by the addition of the feeder fish could be one potential sources of the bloating in the newts as thier kidneys may have become overwhelmed. Additionally caudates are sensitive to low pH levels which stresses them through ionic imbalances which is also another potetnial source of bloat. Many amphibs release pheremones, growth inhibitors and other chemical communications these should also be removed through water changes.
Water changes along with appropriate filtration will control or reduce these factors. If you have a test kit a good recommendation is to keep the nitrate levels under 80 ppm for pond dwelling newts and under 40 ppm for stream dwelling newts (with stream dwellers I would actually consider the lower the better).
Adding scavengers to a system just increases the bioload on the tank and thus the nitrate levels in the end. Cory cats are frequently sold as a scavenger but are not efficent at it as these cats in the wil dnormally prey on small worms and crustaceans in the substrate of the water column.
Also the majority of catfish have erectile spines in the dorsal and pectoral fins which can be erected in defense. In many catfish species there are also venom glands associated with these spines. At least one species of catfish (an asian species) has been known to have a killed humans that were stung.

Follow Ups:

Re: you said it Thera 11/14/01 (0)
Re: bloating, cat fish, and water quality Al 11/09/01 (1)
- Re: bloating, cat fish, and water quality EdK 11/10/01 (0)

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: : I tried to cut feeding expenses and started using feeder fish (rosies) for my Spanish Ribbed newts. : : I lost 3-4 newts from bloat or disease. The only source that I could trace this to is the feeder fish. I also tried to all coley cats (fish) to eat the left over waste in my pleurodele tank. My reasoning was to keep a well balance tank and decrease need for water changes (these newts are big eater and poopers). By day 2, I noticed one of my breeding females had eaten one of the fish...but it got stuck in her mouth. Most fish have sharp fins. : Okay here is one of the big misconceptions you see in dealing with aquaria. : Having some type of scavenger in the aquarium does not keep the aquarium "cleaner" in such a fashion that water changes have been decreased. : There are several reasons for water changes and one of these is to take care of the wastes produced by the inhabitants of the aquarium. : The majority of aqautic animals release waste in the form of ammonia. There is also solid wate from the consumed food items. If there is an established biological filter then the ammonia is converted to nitrous acid to nitric acid (nitrite to nitrate to you fish people). There is a gradual reduction in pH combined with a rise in nitrate. There is still speculation on toxicity in caudates but in sensitive fish high nitrate levels can lead to debilitation and eventual death. High levels of pollutants in the water column such as a spike in ammonia and nitrite caused by the temporary overwhelming of the biological filter bed in the tank by the addition of the feeder fish could be one potential sources of the bloating in the newts as thier kidneys may have become overwhelmed. Additionally caudates are sensitive to low pH levels which stresses them through ionic imbalances which is also another potetnial source of bloat. Many amphibs release pheremones, growth inhibitors and other chemical communications these should also be removed through water changes. : Water changes along with appropriate filtration will control or reduce these factors. If you have a test kit a good recommendation is to keep the nitrate levels under 80 ppm for pond dwelling newts and under 40 ppm for stream dwelling newts (with stream dwellers I would actually consider the lower the better). : Adding scavengers to a system just increases the bioload on the tank and thus the nitrate levels in the end. Cory cats are frequently sold as a scavenger but are not efficent at it as these cats in the wil dnormally prey on small worms and crustaceans in the substrate of the water column. : Also the majority of catfish have erectile spines in the dorsal and pectoral fins which can be erected in defense. In many catfish species there are also venom glands associated with these spines. At least one species of catfish (an asian species) has been known to have a killed humans that were stung.

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