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Posted by shadindigo on February 06, 2003 at 21:06:11:
In Reply to: Re: My 2 cents... posted by Rob Carmichael on February 06, 2003 at 19:00:38:
Recognize I have been beating the proactive versus reactive drum a bit loudly. Normally I lurk, but somehow I seem to have a burr under my saddle on this one. It's just that I see so much opportunity here and I'm tired of the OMG look what happened to the (name your animal). Then it seems to come down to crisis time before anything is done. Part is a failing (reluctance/blissful ignorance) to see what impact we as humans have, and part is due to inactivity or lack of organization in those that do see what is going on. Frankly, snakes aren't as cute or cuddly to the public as say your average spotted owl might be, but their survival is no less in jeopardy. I agree that the group should not spread itself too thin at the outset the important thing is that it get established and become viable.
I'm preaching to the choir so I'll go back to lurking. Thanks for listening.
Jeff, I am in full agreement with you; I guess it all boils down to the actual scope (vision) of this group. It probably makes sense to be proactive rather than reactive (in this case, to the imminent danger facing couperi which is reactive compared to being proactive with, for example, texas indigos in not letting the same thing happen as couperi). I would just hate to see our resources spread so thin that we are not making any impact on any conservation effort. Using the recovery effort of couperi would provide a base of knowledge that could be easily applied to a different drymarchon (perhaps the Texas indigo) with the same group of people (whatever name that will eventually be). Having been involved with a variety of herp conservation efforts, I know how easily things can get lost in the shuffle (too few people doing all of the work)....but, knowing the kind of people that are involved with various dry projects, I don't think that would be an issue. This certainly is an exciting project.
:::I fully understand where you are going with this. All Drymarchon will perhaps be threatened in some way at some point in the future (as will many species of herps). But, I also think that the eastern indigo is the species that is facing immediate threats and perhaps this project will be the thrust for future efforts to save other indigos/cribos.
::Concur. It's a start, and the immediacy of the plight of the Eastern is not disputed. It's just that those of us that realize the impact we as a species (humans) have and continue to have on the Eastern need not only to do what we can for the Eastern but also look to the future when (inevitably IMHO) others are affected. If we really are interested in the conservation of this animal then we need to get out ahead of the detremental effects in addition to trying to address the conservation of that species that IS already threatened.
::Having a focus on one specific animal will allow this group to more effectively make a significant difference in the conservation of a drymarchon; in this case, the eastern indigo.
::I agree, but I think the org. (if it becomes one) should look to the future and plan rather than respond. Those of us expressing an interest in Drys in general and Easterns specifically should have no objection to assisting the Eastern effort wherever it may be, but it has to be conceded that it's closing the barn door after the horse has gone. IMHO we should get ahead of the same thing happening to the Tex and others.
:: I am currently working on a similar effort with the Eastern Massasauga (all 'saugas are in trouble to some degree but it is the eastern 'sauga that is the primary focus for fundraising efforts).
::I tip my hat, must be a challenge. Not only are you advocating a snake, but a venomous one as well. I'm sure there are hurdles...
:: Having a common vision is critical to making this effort a success and the primary question will be to first determine which Drymarchon to focus on (one or all?) and then focus on the scope or primary purpose for this endeavor. My personal interest is with eastern indigos so my personal desire would be to see this particular snake concentrated on in the initial effort. You will get varying opinions on this (and I may very well be in the minority).
::I'd be surprised if any of us would not applaud the effort/ intent of Dean et. al. in the effort to support Eastern research/conservation. I count myself among those that embrace this initiative. Your point is well taken, but IMHO we would be doing a disservice not to prepare for other Dry issues.
::--------------Snip--------you've read it already-----------------
::::If this is a breeders iniative then breeders should name it. If this is going beyond just a percentage of sales price and venture into booths, education, pamphlets, (as others suggest) then maybe others should be involved in the naming process.
::::More important than the naming issue (personally I don't care what it's called)- is the vision for the organization. Assisting with the Eastern effort in GA is a good start in the near term but to my way of thinking is somewhat limited in scope if that is all that is accomplished by the organization.
::::I think there is an opportunity to do many good things here, and the challenges faced are great considering public opinion of snakes in general. But IMHO, it needs to extend beyond the breeders providing a few bucks supporting a study of Easterns in GA. It needs the be the entire Dry community, breeders/keepers/fanciers, kinda like a "Drys Unlimited" as it were (w/o the hunting aspect of course). Participation not predicated by what level of expertise posessed but rather upon the individuals desire/ability to help the cause. Shouldn't be parochial either, the same issues that placed Easterns in a threatened status today will eventually impact other Drys. If this thing flies, there's a lot of work to be done.
::::Upon reading this I guess it really should be in the thread below that got this thing started. Sorry, I started with the naming thing and then I was swept into the moment, even echoed a thought or two.