John Gunn, excellent info! Thanks for your input!

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: : John Gunn : : azdiadophis@aol.com : : September 9, 2000 : : : : Re: Squamate regurgitation syndrome. : : : : I have learned the hard way how easily this pestilence (cryptosporidium) can move through a collection via cage cleaning/handling/feeding/Re-using containers/etc. Unless disposable gloves are employed (as in your doctors office), the entire collection becomes in jeopardy (handling the infected snake then working/feeding in another cage). : : I now have strict quarantine procedures in place for new squamates to prevent large losses as I've suffered before. I never work with a new or suspect animal on the same day I work w/ my other critters. : : I believe many if not most, breeders are in denial & thus spreading this plague continually (their stock rotates thru the same cages). One of the sure signs is anyone who encourages feeding "small meals", Another is when you visit their "snake room" & the unmistakable odor of regurgitated mouse is in a tub or trash can. : : I have kept innumerable snakes over a period in excess of 30 years, I have fed huge meals to a number of healthy snakes, meals so big they could not crawl afterwards, requiring 10 days to 2 weeks to process them. Virtually never have these snakes regurgitated these huge meals. : : The symptoms of regurgitation syndrome are a very retching contraction of the snake/monitor, the prey usually looks 50-75% digested. Sometimes its hard to tell if the item is a scat or regurgitation. The odor associated w/ each is unmistakable though to the experienced keeper. The second consecutive regurgitation event [for me] is proof of a disease issue. : : My last experience, 3 years ago was obviously via a new San Felipe boa (first boa to regurgitate). I was too slow to respond...By the time I gave up 18 months later w/ Flagel treatments, vet & lab costs, etc. I wound up euthanizing 9 beautiful boas. I gave away (w/ lots of warnings) 4 more suspects. My fellow biologist who gave me the boa denies to this day he had (has) a problem, he recommended I feed it smaller meals! : : : : I believe the offending microorganism (s) can survive freezing; I once (for an experiment) froze a regurgitating yrlng boa & 1 month later fed it to a kingsnake, the kingsnake was regurgitating 1 week later. : : Regurgitation should be very rare in healthy squamates. Any captives that regurgitate w/o apparent reason (cold or rough handling) should be assumed infected. They should be treated by an experienced veterinarian if they are valuable enough, preferably euthanized. Flagel treatment appears to be generally ineffective. : : Treated animals should be assumed to be carriers [forever!] & always be maintained under quarantine procedures. : : Prior to purchasing a squamate, you should inquire about your dealers business procedures in case you have to later deal w/ this issue. : : All tubs/containers that held sick squamates should be thrown away or used to store tools. Used cages, even nice ones such as Neodesha are w/o value unless you explicitly trust the previous owner, or have access to an autoclave. : : All breeder loans (bad idea) & new arrivals should be maximally quarantined through a shed to shed cycle. : : My experience with microbiology leads me to believe that squamate gut microecology is so unknown, we ought not to assume too much & instead trust a few million years of evolution & try to manage for natural conditions, rather than the typical western medical dogmas such as sterility. Many of these micro-organisms that we crudely observe & subsequently label as parasitic, are likely mutualistic, synthesizing vitamins or serving as catalysts for other complex biochemical reactions & interactions. Typical lab analysis’s will find a host of what we believe are nasty bacteria & protozoans, thus most samples will appear "sick" & "need treatment". I use this method; start natural & stay natural; feed natural foods in addition to the usual sterile lab mice. I have never known a wild-caught snake to exhibit the syndrome unless it was processed through the cages of a commercial dealer. : : We herp enthusiasts have a duty to personally commit to doing our part to eliminate this plague & stop denying its existence & facilitating its insidious spread. : : Cheers & Beers, John Gunn : : A pertinent update here though...my current cribo was puking when I got it from Great Lakes Zoological Supply, but amazingly stopped after I fed it live lizards & fresh road killed snakes??? : : I have to wonder if perhaps its gut microbiology needed to be re-booted, perhaps having been "dewormed" earlier? Its growing like a weed now & holds down everything....but it still is in quarantine!!! : : : : I have a pair of Eastern Indigos. I have them in Neodesha cages sitting side by side to each other. The female is doing awesome and eats everything. The male is thinner and is also a great eater but tends to eat one food item at a feeding. I fed them both last week. The male took a medium rat. One week later to the day he regurgitated the rat. He was gyrating the front half of his body back and forth while keeping the back still. Then he threw up the rat. There was not much left of the rat. It was nearly completely digested. The snake looks fine now. What are the possible reasons for this? : : : Thanks, : : : Dan : JOHN. : Some of what you said I allready knew, but declined to state for no real reason, but a lot of it I didnt know, esp the part about Crypto surviving freezing. Thank you John Gunn for this valuable input. : Sincerely, : Fred Albury : (Aztec Reptiles U.S.A.)

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