Re: to Clifford

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: : : : I'm just a lurker, as I've yet to spring for an indigo, but this was just too good to pass up...I don't understand why people on the various forums of kingsnake love to pick fights and one up each other. Seems like some people need to go spend some time with their herps and remember how much fun this is... : : A summary: : : Doug writes a post about a beautiful woma, and is surprised that an owner of a fairly expensive snake wouldn't want to be able to properly observe it. That to me seems like a pro for the snake, not a negative for the houseing. He even took the time to begin his post "I'm venting here. If you're not in the mood for a vent, ignore this post." : : Then Fred followed up...that people who use racks typically are simply wearhouseing snakes for greedy purposes, such as making money by breeding as many snakes as possible. He also stated that this often happens with an apparent disregard for the snakes, as rack systems are often used to house a variety of different species, which may have different requirements. (if you can get a nice wide temperature gradient in a small plastic box, please post some shots of your setup, I'd love to see it) He also mentioned that a good reason to use them was their ease of cleaning...which seemed like a positive comment. He remarks rang pretty true to me...if you saw something I missed, let me know. : : Then Doug replied that even though he recognizes that some species may do better in a rack type system for their own comfort and security, he didn't like it, because he likes to watch their activity... I particularly liked the comment about baseball cards...I've never thought of looking out for the well-being of one's collection and maximizing your enjoyment of them as a bad thing. : : The post by Dean was the best of all. : : I can identify with the rape comment. I know of local herpers who take out-of-state trips, catch crap loads of wild caught animals, and sell them locally. It is solely for the herpers gain at the expense of the animals, and it pisses me off. : : If you felt attacked by those posts, either re-examine what about them offended you, or maybe post something constructive about the benifits of racks that they are missing... : : As for the comments about Dave and Tracy, I think they've put the time and effort into the hobby to allow them some scientific license. They don't don't breed the way they do just to cash in. (from what I've read) It's my understanding that they've had the chance to observe more herps in their natural habitat than I'll ever come into contact with. Further more, a number of their breeders are wild caught animals collected for scientific purposes...which probably wouldn't do well under heavy observation anyhow. Likening a random hobbiest to a few well published herpatologists is kind of like suggesting I'm Jordon because I play ball in the park...I question their methods less beause I feel I know their intent. : : To end my irrelivant post, I thought I'd add that I only know one keeper that extensivly uses rack systems. He owned over 90 reptiles, and although I think he is a dedicated herp nut like myself, who really loves having reptiles around...it seemed to me that his collection was much more about "owning" a few of everything than it was about a real love of the animals. It's my only example to draw from, and I think the herps suffered for it. How closely can you pay attention to the health and well-being of 90 animals...? (unless it's your full time job, as with the Barkers) I can hardly keep up with my 5. =) : : Maybe I'm wrong, but I love to watch my snakes, and like these guys I can't imagine other hobbiests not wanting to enjoy that as well. Sorry if that comes off as condemnation or me being full of myself. I thought it was because I liked herps... : : Clif : ; Clifford, : You state that you don't know Dave and Tracy Barker. I do. "Scientific License" has nothing to do with the way they keep snakes, but thanks for cutting them slack. : Stating that no one can keep an arbitrary amount of snakes, (Like 90) and keep them well is erroneous on your part. Plenty of people have 100 or more very well-kept animals. If you are having a tough time keeping up with 5, as you say, perhaps you should spend less time typing. : : : Give me a break. Condemning everyone who uses racks and sweater boxes? Dave and Tracy Barker kept all their snakes in opaque wooden cages with no glass window at all when they were in Maryland and might still do. Do you want to tell them that they don't care and appreciate their snakes? You guys have gotten little too full of yourselves. Try coming down here with the rest of us.

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