Or just feed rodents . . . it's worked for decades. (n/p)

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: : In humans, most vitamins and/or mineral supplements are simply excreted with very little product actually being absorbed. : : Dont waste your money, or your health (your snakes health, in this case), on chelated vitamins and minerals. As I mentioned, not only are they poorly absorbed, but there are concerns that they can be toxic as well. : : My personal belief is that if you are going to supplement, you would be best served by using a high quality mineral supplement. Minerals are overlooked in their importance to health, yet they are vastly more important to supplement with, since adequate mineral intake from food is next to impossible these days (due to top soil depletion). : : I will touch briefly (I could go on for pages about this) on what to look for in a good mineral supplement. Try to get yourself a mineral supplement(s) that comes in ionic form. Next best is colloidal. The typical absorption rate in humans of most human grade supplements is, at best, maybe 15%. Colloidal will be in the 80-90's, and ionic can be nearly 100%. : : Remember from chemistry (again, I'm going to simplify things) that a chelated compound is when you take one element (in this case a mineral!) and combine it to something else). Because of the increased size of this compound (charge is also important here!!!), it's alot harder for your digestive system to pass it through into the blood. : : A plant on the other hand, they absorb minerals from the soil and convert them into a colloidal form. This is the form you receive your minerals from food in. In a simplified way, comparing chelated vs colloidal is like comparing trying to eat minerals straight from dirt vs eating a piece of green vegetable. : : To make a really long post a little shorter, I use a line of liquid minerals that are in ionic form. For my herps (especially gravid ones), I give them calcium (100% absorption) and another product from the same company that is an all in one supplement. It has something like 84 minerals in it, but it's about 2/3's calcium and magnesium (vital for calcium utilization). It has everything from A to Z (almost!)!! I simply add to the drinking water. : : Another good choice is calcium from dead coral. This stuff is ionic, so it has very high absorption, and has most of the trace minerals that every animal needs. There are multiple sources of coral calcium available. Some even have D3 added to it. : : Now for vitamins, that's another story, for another day. If you would really like me to, I can offer you a suggestion of a product that contains virtually every known vitamin and mineral, as well as literally thousands of phytonutrients in it. I sometimes feed it to my crickets for my frogs and lizards, but since I use frozen mice, well, I'm not quite sure best how to get it into a snake! : : One final thought. I believe it was Doug who mentioned that Indigos come from habitat that is found on limestone. Limestone is especially high in calcium, and I believe has magnesium in it as well. Most plants that grow in that habitat are going to convert that calcium carbonate into a colloid, thus these plants are going to be very rich in calcium and other minerals (relative to other types of habitat). Anything that eats these plants will pass these raw materials on up the food chain, where it will eventually find itself being eagerly eaten by an indigo snake. : : My point? It's a safe bet that indigo mineral requirements are higher than other snakes, and one can speculate that fertility rates (egg viability) may have something to do with inadequate intake. : : Sorry for both the long post and how the post sounds disjointed. My tegu has been insisting that I feed him my dinner while I've been typing this, so it's taken me a very long time to write this (frequently interrupted). : : I'm sure that I'm going to get called names and get flamed for this post, but don't let ignorance from arrogant people dissuade what I am trying to convey to you. If you (or anyone else) have any questions about this, please feel free to ask, and I will try to answer you in a semi timely manner (I'll have to check the regulations of the new company I work at. I'm not sure if having an outside life is permitted, unless I put in a requistion form first!). : : dave : : : : : First thing, I wouldn't advise shoving an entire vitamin tablet into a prey animal. You might actually be administering toxic levels of certain vitamins with a human sized tablet. : : : There are some reptile specific vitamin powders out there, but who knows how close they come to what a snake needs. : : : Personally, if I remember to do it, about 1 time a month I'll sprinkle a little Nekton Rep vitamin powder on a meal for a snake. I don't know how effective or ineffective it is. : : : The stuff I have is getting kind of old and I'll most likely just take a human grade multi vitamin, crush it, and sprinkle just a little of it on the food. : : : If you are feeding freshly killed prey, additional vitamins (except maybe D3) are probably not needed at all. : : : My thoughts, : : : Doug : : : : Dont really know if this has been brought up before - BUT I would like to get a few of y'alls inputs... (Actually if any one has been doing it - what is the outcome?) : : : : Would it be of any benefit to stuff a (Human) vitamin supplement (Centrum or somethin like that) to a feeder mouse before offering to your Drymarchon? Or do reptiles not need the same vitamins/minerals we do? I was thinking about the vitamin/nutrient content to a fuzzy vice an adult mouse, to the relation of a young Drymarchon and a human being and how the more nutrients we get as young ones - the better off (and healthier) we are as adults? Any thoughts?

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