Fred's sound advice

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: : : I agree with you on the temps. I knew a guy who kept a small clutch at a more or less constant LOW seventies (like 72 ish). He panicked after they had not hatched in 130 days! He (against my advice) cut them open. One made it, the rest did not. THEY WERE NOT READY YET !! I think they would have eventually hatched on their own. I would really like to get some stats on tortoise burrow temps in spring/summer in Florida. : : : (assuming that is where they lay, and that is a big assumption) : : : What kind of problems have you heard of or experineced from poor air circulation? : : : I have to say that although I typically open the containers once a day to air them out a little, the incubation system I use does not allow much air circulation at all, and I have not had an problems yet...but you have me a little concerened. : : : Thanks... : : : Dean : : It is just an observation I made over the years, more a "Blind dumb luck" observation(sorry doug) than anything else. In my incubators, of which I have used everything from hoemmade, Hova-bators, Lyons etc, I have noticed that I have higher hatch rates. less portality, in incubators where good air flow was present. : : Example: : : Early on I used Hovabators, cause I was poor, (Hey, they worked!) and I built a special wooden sleeve to bring the top of the box about 12 inches higher than a normal hovabator. I also opened the box and let new air in, despite it being the "air circulateing(*sic*) model, about 2-3 times a day. Got 100% hatch rate that year and no dead in egg. Similar expereince on more expensive models. Air circulation is important I believe. But, if you have been enjoying such a good hatch rate, then why tinker with it Dean? : : This is what worked for ME....HERE..in San Diego. I dont think that all rules are universal when it comes to the incubation of drymarchon eggs. A LOT of difrent methods are going to work and i am always interested in reading what other people use, for instance your method of useing towels instead of vermiculite as a incubation medium. I might just try that this year. pretty wild, but you never know! : : : : Now...as far as temps... : : I have to say this: : : 72 is top low for incubation, I have NOT doen studies of gopher tortise burrows to confirm this(Who has?) but know , from these many years of trying to consistantly produce these great snakes, that at 72 degrees, the wait is going to be VERY long. I believe you said 130 days? Thats LONG. I have incubated them at 80 and had to wait 93 days. Anything over 80 and BAD THINGS HAPPEN. I have been urged by fellow snake breeders, who coincidentally DONT breed Easterns, to raise my temps up to 84, and cut the incubtion time dramamtically. I actually tried this about 6 years ago on a very small clutch. : : My results?: : : Out of 6 eggs, 3 died in the shell, 3 where hopelessly kinked. : : 80 degrees MAX and preferably a little under it is better. Realize also that TEMPERATURE SPIKES even for a day, above 80 degrees, can cause spinal defects and death in the egg. so control the temps all the time if you possibly can. : : Hope this rambling : : helps, : : Fred : : Fred, : I feel your advice is solid and speaking after 12 years of colubrid breeding (particularly Central and South American tricolors, I have noticed that upon initial trials of higher incubation temps (in the beginning due to poor advice and assumptions that because of the tropical climate the incubation temps warrant a significantly higher temp), that kinked spines, dead-in-egg, as well as unusually small hatchlings were a result. Beginning 7 years ago I used lower incubation temps (e.g. 75 as opposed to 82) and found that although my anticipated hatch dates were extended by an average of 15 - 20 days, the neonates hatched very large, in perfect health, and actually fed more readily post-hatch shed than before. Literally, my Pueblan milksnakes were hatching at an average of 14 inches versus a typical 8 to 10. I'll certainly use the same practice with couperi eggs and keep a watchful eye. JK

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