Re: No shelling Doc, I have total respect for your knowledge

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: Fred, I absolutely respect your experience with these guys...Thanks for understanding my post the way I meant it..I also agree with CB vs WC...But a lot of folks still have to start with WC Cribos, I did...Hopefully will never have to again... : You got my intention perfectly..Why discard a medicine with such great potential for us with NO scientific backing...Will I use it now? I don't know yet...But I don't think I'd let a snake go down the tubes to an ameobic/protozoan infection because of this report (I doubt you would either) : I'm not sure there is another drug out there for the expedient treatment of those infections...As you point out, even CB animals are not totally immune... : Just stirring up the pot and trying do something useful... : By the way, I'll now go back to just being a "body mechanic" my usual answer for what I do..Keeps the salesmen at bay... Carl : : : Carl, : : : : No shelling is necessary. I respect your degree of education and understanding of medicine and treatment. That said, I ask that you show an equal level of respect for my high level of dedication and study of snakes and in particular those of the genus Drymarchon. As I said earlier, : : The vast majority of the snakes that I have, and buy are ALL c/b. Does this omit them from being susceptible to the pathogens mentioned in your letter? No, it does not. : : But it does decrease the likelyhood that these problems will arise. I have had W/C Drymarchon, and have spent quite a bit on vet bills to"clean them up" LUCKILY I am no longer in the stage where I want to or have to buy up adults so as to produce "As fast as possible" Most of my project snakes have at least 3 or even 5 years to go before potential breeding. Oh well. : : Carl, I understand what you are trying to convey, "Why should we discard a medicine with so many positive attributes?" : : To which I say, when you can PROVE to me, beyhond the shadow of a reasonable doubt, that the use of Flagyl will not endanger or hurt any of my Indigos : : then that is the day that I will start useing it, IF I need to(Which again is unlikely, as colection is closed and no W/C) : : Until then, I will wait and bide my time produceing these awesome snakes(God willing that is) : : As a physician, I would expect no less of you than : : than what you have shown. Thank you for your post, your input, and please, by all means keep us abreast of any findings you may have concurred or deducted. : : Thank you Carl, : : : Sincerely, : : Fred Albury : : : : First, let me confess that I'm a human doctor, sorry..But since I started this thread, here goes... : : : Flagyl is a very unique anti- microbial...There is NO other drug like it...The indications for metronidizole (Flagyl) and aminoglycosides (amikacin) and floxins (Baytryl) are COMPLETELY different Neither of the latter cover the enteric (intestinal) pathogens as flagyl...Neither is an ameobicide, which is very important in reptiles...Nor are they anti-parasitics which flagyl is...It is also an excellent antibiotic for anaerobic pneumonias and more... : : : In humans, it is safe for women in PREGNANCY and the drug of choice for pneumonias in the debilitated, as well as the antiobiotic of choice for the vast majority of intestinal infections and more... : : : I find it very unusual that this drug should be toxic only to 2 genera of snakes from the same taxonomic group...It just doesn't make sense... : : : If the reason for staying away from it is all based on annecdotal experience, than we are depriving our animals of an outstanding drug that is an antibiotic, anti-parasitical, and anti-amoebic... : : : I'm not saying we should all rush out and buy it to give at the drop of a hat, but at least not across the board drop it from our arsenal with NO scientific evidence...Particularily those of us who love cribos..Frequently we are still getting wild caught animals in which all of the above bad stuff is endemic and needs treatment....Enterocolitis (diarrhea), amoebic liver and intestinal infections and external, as well as internal parasites... : : : So guys the answer is THERE IS NO OTHER DRUG which does all the things flagyl can do... : : : Let the shelling begin, I'm already in my basement.."Dr Carl" : : : : : : : If you are really concerned about flagyl, why not use baytril or Amikacin? Amikacin is a little bit more tedious to administer but in my opinion works better than flagyl in many cases. Baytril is just awesome. I know it has been known to cause some scarring in dogs and cats if given SQ but I have never heard of any instances of this in snakes. : : : : Folks, : : : : The first time I heard of the issue of sensitivity in Drymarchon and flagyll was 11 years ago. To date I have used it ONCE on a Drymarchon. I would have to agree with Jeremy, why bother researching it and trying to find out if it is or isnt toxic at lower dosages? Pick another drug to do the same thing, Baytrill works wrll but can lead to dermal breakdowns if used to frequently. Better than death,I think. But if someone wants to research it, then thats their right, just dont ask me to volunteer any of MY Drymarchon for test subjects:) Good point Jeremy. : : : : : : : : Fred : : : : (Aztec Reptiles)

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